www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Christians of the world should be ashamed

Daniel,
Mocking another country may be a precedent for war but I think Franco-American relations are strong enough to see any mockery for what it is. People in both countries are guilty of it but is is certainly not official policy by either government.

I didn't mean imply that the French are being criticized for their rejection of Catholicism (wouldn't that be something if it were true!) You mentioned "dehumanize" and I was trying to make the point that if, indeed, they are dehumanized it is because of their rejection of Catholicism. Of course, we are all dehumanized when we reject the Church.

As far as I can tell, most American criticism of France stems from that government's active attempts to subvert our foreign policy. Now, you may disagree with the US policy in Iraq as the French government certainly did, but their true colors really shone especially in light of the French involvement in the Oil-For-Food scandal.

Paul - who gets referred to as Nik by just about EVERYONE (I've come to expect it)

Paul- I'm not so sure it wasn't the official policy of the government: remember "freedom fries"?
Yes, to the extent that any people reject Christ they dehumanize themselves; I fear America is pretty far down that road, while flattering itself and patting itself on the back for its religiosity.
What I was referring to is the dehumanization by others, the mockery and accusations of cowardice [perhaps if Americans had suffered like the French in WWI they would be more understanding...]
-Daniel

Dear Daniel,

You know we were and might still be in a war with France...a trade war that is. If I recall correctly, the French decided not to buy Maryland chickens for some concocted reason, so we retaliated by banning their pate do foia gras because their canning process didn't live up to our government standards. How's that for 'tit for tat.'

Actually their attitutde towards us is very demeaning and patronizing. They speak about us as if we are idiots...which of course we are to a certain extent.

I heard one professor refer to us as the 'empire', and that we were not really upset about the lives lost in the World Trade Center attack, because we didn't care about the hundreds of thousands that died in the Civil War. He said our only reason for going to war was because Osama Bin Laden had the nerve to attack us within the 'empire'.

Not that there is no truth to what he is saying, but now that I recall, wasn't it the French generals that were sending their men to fight the Germans in WW I without the hope of advancing even an inch. Over 5,000 French men were dying each day and yet they continued to send them out to fight for over two years. Now you figure!

Do you know that at one Christimas both sides of the conflict began to sing Christmas carols. The officers panicked because they were fearful that the comradie might keep the men from killing one another. They stopped it soon enough. So much for the French...Germans, and all the rest of them. I mean the one's that are not idiots like us.

Zenovia

Daniel,

Is "freedom fries" official US policy? I still call them French fries, I hope I'm not breaking any laws.

I agree, America is very much down the road when it comes to rejecting God. I don't know what it is going to take to humble us but we need it. I don't agree though, that we flatter ourselves for our religiosity. Some people might, but this is a very secular nation and I would say that most Americans are either non-religious or religious in name only.

Yes, the French suffered dearly in WWI but did that stop them from getting their revenge on Germany after the war? Did it stop them from holding on to their colonies all over the world or from confiscating German colonies? Since the days of Napoleon III the French have had a bad habit of talking big and not being able to back it up. From Vichy France to the Oil-For-Food scandal, the French have developed an image of being collaborators and back-stabbers. Whether this is valid or not can be debated. Nevertheless, this is how many American view them.

Paul - who was just getting a little tease in about that whole name thing

Paul- Well they were called "freedom fries" in the Senate cafeteria...
I meant that American Christians flatter themselves about how religious we are; Fr Neuhaus goes on and on about it. In general American Christians lament the state of the nation until we are bombing someone. Then we are the righteous ones.
And Americans should spend more time contemplating how we are seen by other nations than in negatively assessing France, or whomever.
Every nation has its glories and its flaws; we would do well to remember the glories instead of the flaws, especially as so many Americans are so oblivious to how our nation is seen by others...
-D

Daniel,
I didn't know that about the "freedom fries". I hope they changed it back.

Too many American Christians need some remedial education about their faith though I suppose the same can be said for European Christians also.

We can't please every country all the time so if we contemplate how we are seen by others we also need to take into account who those others are. Sure, a nation such as France has had its glories - as have we - but the flaws of France are much more recent and relevant than her glories.

What was it Someone said about casting the beam out of our own eyes before plucking the mote out of another's?
-D