www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The Byzantine Forum: truth in labeling?

It has happened not infrequently: someone will object to the perceived unfair treatment of Latin Catholics on the Forum. You know, the perception that a lot more is tolerated from hostile Orthodox than from well-meaning and curious Romans. The Administrator will then point out that this is a Byzantine, not a Catholic site.
However, I first came to this site from a link on the site for the Byzantine Catholic Church, and across the bottom of every page it says that the Forum is an "UNOFFICIAL site of the Byzantine Catholic Church in America". It is entirely understandable that a wandering Roman Catholic might think, therefore, that this IS a Catholic site and be unnecessarily offended when their well-meaning questions are met with hostility.[I know there have been offensive Latins from time to time but too often those who post from a Roman perspective mean no harm at all].
So, my question is this: ought the Forum change its structure to make it plain if it is not a Catholic site? Or should we all make a concerted effort to be more patient and understanding with our Latin brethren?

We are always open to suggestions and the topic is a fair one for discussion.

It has been my experience that, if people don�t bother to read the Forum Policies that they must agree to during the registration process (which quite clearly state that this is an Eastern Christian and not an Eastern Catholic forum), then they will not bother to read anything anywhere else indicating this.

Our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters are woefully uneducated about Eastern Christianity in general and about Byzantine Catholicism in particular. Even though I have a brief history linked from the home page that clearly states that we are in communion with Rome, I routinely get e-mails from people calling us to abandon our heresies and return to the Roman Catholic Church.

As the Administrator stated in the above post, my experience with this forum is that it is pretty much what it presents itself to be: a place where Byzantine Catholics can discuss thier faith and others can learn about the Byzantine faith. As far as anyone feeling they are being treated unfairly, that is generally the result of interactions between individuals. Unfortunately even on forums such as this people can sometimes be hostile or condemming, rather then disagreeing courteously. All we can do is try to treat everyone as charitably as we can, even if we don't agree with what they say.

I have now been a member of this Forum for some time.

I have been totally up front about being an RC - I think everyone knows - even my ID indicates it.

I have on only a few occasions, been treated with other than courtesy and kindness , and willingness to answer any questions.

I have made friendships with both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox members.

But at the same time - yes from time to time there can be problems with new members - but I suspect that these members would have problems no matter to which Forum they belong - after all I openly admit to having been banned from one RC forum as I was not Catholic enough for them - a banning which has caused me no end of amusement.

The only people , to my mind , who do have problems here are those who are strongly convinced that they are right and everyones else is wrong - and Byzantine Catholics Orthodox Christians, Oriental Orthodox , Tridentine Catholics - oh do I really have to go on trying to get everyone in alphabetical order ? - have no sole right to this frame of mind.

I really cannot see how this suggestion of Iconophile will help.

Those who come with a chip on their shoulder will have that chip no matter whether they post here or any other Internet Forum - and those are the people who will not read the agreement or policies to which they have to sign their agreement before their registration is accepted.

All,

I think you are doing a good job as a Byzantine Forum because you attract both Orthodox and Catholic Byzantine and Roman Catholic Christians. I should mention the Christians of other Eastern traditions that also gather here.

I've never felt unfairly treated on this forum.
You have been kind to me when I make mistakes.

God bless you and may St Michael the Archangel protect you from every evil.

Paul

IF anyone thinks that we have problems it would suffice to take a look at some other presences on the Internet - several years ago a friend kindly signed me up for an Eastern Catholic discussion list, or something like that, based in the Western USA. Turned out that they required a loyalty oath worded in such a way that no one with an honest heart and a theological education could possibly have taken it. Without ever attempting to post anything, I pointed out the theological impossiblity to whoever was in charge - who thereupon "expelled" me from a list I had never asked to join and never made use of. I'm still wondering whether that list was real, or just the figment of some fanatic's imagination. Incognitus

I, too, think this is a great site where Orthodox and Catholic can meet and I would not want that to change.

I also must say that I did not know until recently that this is not a Catholic site. I'm not saying that it ought to be one. It was a surprise for me to learn that. I would agree that the wording at the bottom of the page would make you think this is a Catholic site. Perhaps the wording should be changed.

Re-thinking what I wrote above...Part of me wishes my perception that this was a Byzantine Catholic site had been correct. There are plenty of Orthodox sites and plenty of Roman Catholic sites. We Byzantine Catholics should have a site also. Maybe someday there'll be one.

As it is, I can see how someone new to the Forum could misunderstand and assume this is a Byzantine Catholic Forum.

WOW! Can you please post the Forum Policies again for all of us who registered long ago? If this is an Eastern Christian forum and not just an Eastern Catholic forum, then why are only Catholic parishes of the East linked? On one hand, the website is Eastern "Catholic," at least from the look of the parishes linked at its parish websites, but on the other hand its forum is Eastern "Christian." The lack of consistency is confusing. What exactly IS this this "byzcath" website?

Joe

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Hi Dave,

Me too!
Possibly, I had assumed that it was a Catholic site, but then I was surprised how active it is.

Most boards I have seen that devote space to Eastern Catholicism are pretty dead in that corner.
I think so eventually.

But for now I think the population of Eastern Catholics is just too thin in the English speaking world to sustain a board without the participation of many Latins and Orthodox, then we'd have something like this! The only alternative I can see to this environment would be one that is much more heavily moderated.

But then, I would probably fall asleep reading it!
Ditto, I think the confusion on a visitors part is totally understandable. But I think eliminating that confusion will not change the problems, people will not behave any different. There will always be those who live for the gladiatorial polemical match and want to prove we are all heretics. They come like shooting stars, from every direction and every theological perspective.

But most people who post here are more than kind, very thoughtful. I am always moved by the postings in the prayer section.

I never cease to learn something new (and I have so much to learn!) whether it is a book recommendation or an argument about liturgical practice. I am constantly fascinated, that is, when I'm not annoyed!

I suppose that if people come wanting to learn something or share something they will not have any problems, if they seek this board out with an agenda to teach, admonish and reprove the wayward souls here they are going to have trouble.

Michael

I'm glad to be confused , never would learned so much about my Eastern brethern .

james

Anyone who wishes can read this by logging off and then logging back on again. But if you do make sure to remember your password!

Here is the text:

Welcome to The Byzantine Forum!

The Byzantine Forum welcomes all newcomers to our on-line community. This forum is mainly a community of Byzantine and other Eastern Christians who share a common historical and theological heritage. As such, it is an Eastern Christian forum and not specifically a Catholic forum. Roman Catholic and other Western Christians who have come here to learn about how we express our faith in Christ are warmly invited to participate, but we make clear that the primary purpose of this forum is to exchange information and ideas and not to engage in heavy apologetics. If you have come to overload us with apologetic quotes to test how "Catholic" we really are, please don't bother to register - that is simply not how we live out our lives of faith.

To truly understand who Eastern Christians are you must "come and see" for yourself by joining us in worship. The warmth and fellowship of our faith experienced in person cannot be described in any book. We extend a warm invitation to everyone to visit one of our parishes and join us in prayer.

General Information about The Byzantine Forum

Considering the real-time nature of The Byzantine Forum, it is impossible for us to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we at www.byzcath.org do not actively monitor the contents of The Byzantine Forum and are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of www.byzcath.org or any entity associated with The Byzantine Forum. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use The Byzantine Forum to post any material which is unchristian, knowingly false and/or defamatory, accusatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB.

Although the owners of The Byzantine Forum do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we at The Byzantine Forum reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless this BB, Madrona Park, Inc. (the makers of the bulletin board software), and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s).

We at www.byzcath.org also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.

Participants may provide a link to their personal website in their profile but it is not permitted to provide such a link in their display name or signature. Links relevant to the topic under discussion are always permitted provided the link is germane and in good taste.

Please note that advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate to The Byzantine Forum. Please also note that, if you are registering simply to post an advertisement to another site, you may do so only in one forum and may choose between the News or Town Hall forums to make your announcement. Those posting the same information in multiple forums will lose posting privleges and will be banned.

Again, please note that The Byzantine Forum is an on-line meeting place for Christians especially focusing on Byzantine Christianity (both Catholic and Orthodox). As you discuss your faith please remember that those visiting the Byzantine Forum who do not share our faith in Christ will form an opinion of Byzantine Christianity based upon what YOU post.

Please note that we no longer accept registrations from Hotmail accounts! Please use another e-mail address to register.

Please also note that each participant is limited to one User Name. Anyone caught using multiple User Names will forfeit all posting privileges.

Thanks, Administrator, for re-posting this. Still, one can read posts from this Forum without receiving this notification. I know I sometimes read this board from work and I'm not logged in. So some visitors to the Forum do not see the above statement. The description at the bottom of each page on the Forum says:

Unless one reads the statement you just posted the quote above could easily make one think this is a Byzantine Catholic Forum. Perhaps rewording the above statement would make the situation more clear?

James I agree!

Gees, I have so much to learn. I just figured this is a good place to kick off your shoes and prop your feet up and have an interesting discussion with the cyber neighbors over a cup of coffe.

There must be something wrong with me when I understnd the Eastern Catholic, Eastern Christian thing. The purposed strived for is to bring discussion between Eastern Catholics and Orthodox, but in reality, it takes discussion between those two, along with Roman Catholics, and the occassional protestant who happens aboard. We are about understanding who we are as the Eucharistic/Sacramental Church of Christ, and how we come together.

You know if just one of the people, in the lifetime of this forum that is a guest converts from any paganism or comes to the Eucharistic Lord through the work of this forum, then every word that is ever printed in it will have been worthwhile.

May God grant us many years of peace, health, and happiness, as we strive to understand who we are as children of God in His Body that is so sorely divided. May he forgive us for those we have unjustly harmed in any way through word or action, and heal the wounds. Jesus said that conversion is done not by power or might, but by His Spirit. Come Holy Spirit! Fill our hearts that we sing of your joy, and respond in love and compassion even in disagreement.

Pani Rose

Joe,

The website itself offers information about the Byzantine Catholic Church and links of interest.

The Byzantine Forum is an extension of the website and is Eastern Christian (and not specifically Byzantine Catholic). This is the only way that all Eastern Christians can feel at home here. This is also why it is �The Byzantine Forum� and not �The Byzantine Catholic Forum�. About a year ago (maybe more) we had a similar discussion wherein some participants recommended that we rename it "The Eastern Christian Forum" because the use of the term "Byzantine" was too restrictive. At that time I noted that it was fair point but because The Byzantine Forum is now well known it would not be a good idea to change its name.

The listing of parishes is part of the website. It would be wonderful to develop a totally pan-Eastern Christian website (which is why I created www.easten-christian-churches.net/index.asp) [easten-christian-churches.net] but I just don�t have the time right now to keep both sites up to date and this one is more important. If you or someone else is willing to develop a page containing links to other Eastern Christian parishes I would be happy to host it.

I realize that my various efforts to serve the Church where I see a need are rather poor. I apologize for the confusion that you and others are experiencing. If you or anyone else have suggestions for improvement that are not overly time consuming I will be very happy to consider them.

Admin

Dear Administrator,

Thanks for all your work on this Forum and on the sites! I had never seen the other site (Eastern-Christians-net). We just need to get someone to hire you full time to develop sites (does Metropolitan Basil read the Forum? )

As it is, you're doing a great job!

Slava Isusu Christu!

There used to be a Byzantine Catholic Forum way back in the day on Byzantines.net

The Byzantines.net Forum was closed by Greg Bronson who Doxed and decided to close an important part of many peoples online experience. The reason for the closure was "abuses" but we all knew what the real reason was. Every forum has abuses; that is the nature of the internet and being connected to a world community.

Back then, Byzantine Forum was seen as more literate, if you will. This Forum was known to have many educated people on it that could articulate theology very well from an Eastern POV. When the Byzantines.net Forum closed we all came here and evened it out a bit

I look forward to the day when someone opens the old Byzantines.net Forum again, but this one is a second best. All the rest fail in comparison.
This place has been a comforting place for many years; may it be so for many more

Sincerely,


Robert Horvath

Ever consider having non-Catholic Eastern Christians as forum moderators? How about links to other non-Catholic Eastern churches or websites?

Joe

Thanks for the update on Greg. I didn't know that he Doxed. Once again, it goes to show how the Byzantine Catholic Church is only a prep-school for Orthodoxy. God bless Greg Bronson.

Joe

I am constantly on the lookout for non-Catholic Eastern Christians to be moderators. In the past we have had Father Kyrill, a Greek Orthodox priest, as a moderator. Currently we have Archimandrite Gregory, an Orthodox hieromonk, as a moderator on our prayer forum.

If you go to https://www.byzcath.org/links/Links-to-Sister-Churches.htm you will find an extensive but not exhaustive number of links for Eastern Christian Churches. That page is updated frequently and has been part of this website for over six years.

Chill out, Joe. You say stuff like that all the time and it makes me wonder if you're chronically depressed.

The Byzantine Catholic Church is a witness to the Orthodox on behalf of the Catholic Church, and an invitation to the Orthodox--hardly a mere prep school for those leaving Catholicism.

Dear LT:

We are a witness to political realities of the past. If you want us to be a witness to the Orthodox, get your Patriarch to start minding his own business and stop meddling in the internal affairs of the sui juris Churches that are (for the time being at least) in communion with him.

Yours,

hal

"the Byzantine Catholic Church is only a prep-school for Orthodoxy." Do tell. I remember the days when that was said about the Anglo-Catholics - they were a prep school for Roman Catholicism. Nowadays in terms of absolute numbers there are more US Catholics becoming Anglicans than vice versa.
Incognitus

All,

To start off, I'd like to say how truly glad I am that a forum like this exists. The Byzantine Forum is really open to all types of discussions pertaining to Eastern spirituality and practice.

I am a long time member of this forum and have learned a lot from many of the posters here throughout the years. I have even had the pleasure of making some friends here too.

When I first began posting here I was well aware that this was in fact an Eastern Christian forum. Though I, like many it seems, assumed it was particularly Byzantine Catholic. Either way
I continued to post and share my opinions.

There have been many times I was offended by posters and though never my intent I may have offended others here at times.

In fact I was so offended once, as a result of several personal incidents (some involving this forum) that I was left feeling that the Byzantine Catholic Church had no place within Catholicism and ought to be integrated with the Orthodox. Of course this is not my feeling today partly because of the many other charitable people I met here.

As a Roman Catholic I have learned that the Byzantine Catholics and Eastern Catholics in general have suffered because of actions of my Church. Those actions were unexcusable. Today though I feel that my Church is really trying to correct any errors and help our Eastern "lung" regain her rightful traditions.

Back to the forum. When I first came to the forum I certainly felt most welcome by the moderators and felt that my beliefs were respected. It was very balanced. I was taught many things about Eastern Catholicism and I got a well balanced picture.

It is my opinion that nowadays this forum is just a tiny bit less balanced. From my experience it seems that Eastern Orthodoxy is put on a sort of pedestal. For example I am left feeling that a Roman Catholic who really doesnt understand Eastern practice but comes as a seeker will be "jumped on" for saying anything misconstrued as a criticism of anything Orthodox. But Catholicism can be criticized in a more open and direct manner and no one [moderators especially] will not say anything unless the remarks are truly offensive.

I think that I have a clearer view of Eastern Catholicism now than I have ever had before. I see the Byzantine Catholic Church in particular as our great Sister. At times I feel that many of her members, though not all, see their past Orthodox roots more strongly than their unity with Peter. In other words some make it seems that their intercommunion Church, Roman Catholicism is somehow less than their previous Eastern Orthodox affilations.

The Roman Catholic Church really does love Eastern Catholicism and Orthodoxy as well. We are trying to repair any damage we may have caused.

I have no agenda here. I am niether a "traditionalist" or a "modernist". I simply want to see the BCC and all Eastern Catholic Churches and their members happy, prosperous, and enjoying all of the traditions that they want.

As a Roman Catholic I see my Church trying its best to return to you that which you seek, that which we wrongly took away. I wish some, because not all of you are like this, stopped and actually considered what we are doing and begin to take actve roles in helping us to help you.

As Romans we have a long way to go in helping you but its hard when some Eastern Catholics blatantly criticize the Pope and their communion with him. Its fine for the Orthodox to do this because they are not in intercommunion with us. Sure we can all lament somethings but I am talking about a lot worse comments here.

The Eastern Catholic Churches need to stand on their own. Have their own Patriarchs and laws and customs. But we need to be together in this. Not wishing we were in some other religion.

I hope this hasnt offened anyone but I neeeded to let this all out. I love this Forum and the BCC and Orthodoxy, because we are all witnesses together of the Love of Christ.

God Bless

ProCatholico

PS: Please excuse the typos

The point has been made any number of times here that the trickle from the BCC to Orthodoxy is very modest compared to the stream towards the RCC. Joe likes to make this prep school comment, but he knows better.

Dear Incognitus- where did you get the numbers for the assertion that more Roman Catholics are becoming Anglican than vice versa? Could this result from the fact that there are way more RCs to begin with?
While I agree with the Administrator that Western Christians are "woefully ignorant" about Eastern Churches I find that they are rarely of ill will [perhaps the hostile emails he has received have skewed his perception]. What I have seen in my relatively short time on the Forum is well meaning Latin Catholics trying to harmonize Eastern thought with what they have been taught, sometimes without subtlety, about Catholic teaching . Often they unintentionally offend and are treated harshly. The ignorant are to be taught, not thrashed, though I admit this may be a more difficult task when the ignorant think they know it all!
Further, we ought to realize that Roman Catholics in this age are naturally suspicious of anyone claiming to be Catholic who is hostile to the Pope and we ought to respect this. Loyalty to the Holy Father is a sort of touchstone of [Catholic] orthodoxy in the modern world. If they lack sympathy toward our Orthodox brethren there are better ways to instill it than kicking them off the Forum.
And we ought not underestimate the centrality of Papal teaching on contraception and the like to modern [faithful] Roman Catholics. The fact that mainstream Orthodox are hazy on sexual ethics raises all sorts of suspicion.
Anyway, ought it not be clearer to the casual browser that this is not a specifically Catholic site? I must admit that I did not read the fine print when I registered. How many of you did?

Iconophile You asked Where the figures come from that show more leaving the RC church to the Episcopal Church.. At the end of the paragraph you gave a list of the reasons why. About 10 years ago, my sister in louisville, KY told me on the phone that the Epiccpoal bishop had witten a letter to the Roman Catholic bishop stating that the Catholic Church must be doing something wrong. He stated that, while his church was overjoyed to see its churches filled with new converts, he could not help noting the the names were Irish, Czech, Polish, German and central European. I also noted that in my city of Cleveland, Ohio one RC parish was kind of designated as a safety valve. One could be a member of the church as a "Christian" and ;not a Roman Catholic. You must realize that RC Catholics that are divorced, use birth control -- excluded for the RC church are accepted into the Episcopal church. Remember Henry VIII had a jproblem like that which got the whole Church of England started as a seperate church. Also note that over the last 50 years, Gay RV who ;have been kicked out of thier church have also been finding a home in the Episcopal Church. So that means todays current swing back toward th RC by some whoi don'st like ;the elevation of the bishop in NH, there are those who approve. I hope thai adds to your understanding of how the shift could be taking place. As Catholics,. we lide to throw peaple born to the church out to ;the wolves. It shouls not suprise us to find that our discards are accepted ;by other ;churches. I question our policcy of actively kicking peoople out to mini;mize the jproblem of the priest shortage, though. I gues thais shows that i still have some ties to the RC church. yours in Christ Clifford

The Romanian Byzantine Catholic bishop stated at a St. John Chrysostom Society conference that the "mission of the Eastern Catholic church was to disappear." My use of the term "prep school" was learned from our own clergy. I shouldn't be quoting them, huh?

Joe

Dear Hal:

The Pope's "meddling" in the internal affairs(?) of sui juris Churches (I think you should be forthcoming enough to cite the UGCC as a prime example) flows from his authority as the Supreme Pontiff and not as the Patriarch of the West.

The duties and responsibilities of the Supreme Pontiff in relation to the Eastern Catholic Churches, and vice versa, are clearly spelled out in the Eastern Code of Canons and its amendments and in other special Church laws governing the East. If you do not want his meddling, make a move for the amendment of the Eastern Code, or its total abrogation.

I think the Catholic Communion is a non-coercive union of disparate and diverse Churches and any sui juris Church can opt out at any time. For instance, your chief hierarch, Major Archbishop Husar, has the power, with the backing of the UGCC Holy Synod, to tell the Pope that his Church wants out of the Catholic Communion and nobody but nobody, but God, can stop him from doing that. (Of course, the repercussions could be heard worldwide!)

Before calling the Holy Father to task, take a moment and consider how he or the Catholic Communion could solve the UGCC "patriarchate" problem with the current jurisdictional chaos in the Ukrainian Church?

Who needs who? I simply do not want to speculate.

Thanks for this Forum and to the Administrator(s) and Moderators, we could air our "own" grievances.

AmdG

Joe,

You have criticized statments of clerics often enough that it is funny for you to offers the clerical origin of your remark as support for it. The prep school remark is not a thoughtful one. It presents a totally distorted picture of our faithful and faithfulness - both presently and over history. It is thuis confusing to people who cannot be experted to know that it is cynical hyperbole. It could also be construed as presupposing an lack of orthodoxy that is undefined and thus again prone to misinterpretation.

You ain't kidding, partner.

I'll shut up now.

I have been a member of this forum for nearly 3 years and was a frequent reader of posts here before joining. From the very beginning it was made clear that this is a forum for ALL Eastern Christians, Catholic or Orthodox. It was made clear that "Western" Christians were welcome here as guests, but only so long as they respected our Eastern customs, theology, philosophy, et cetera. At various times during my time on the forum I have seen numerous attempts by "Westerners" (usually traditional RC's) who have tried to tell us that we are all wrong, that if we are truly "Catholics" we will conform to the RCC in everything except our Liturgy, wanting to make us nothing more than Roman Cathlics with a funny Mass. I once went through the directory listing all members of the list, counting the various jurisdictions of the members. For those who listed they religious affiliation, nearly twice as many Roman Catholics were members as there were Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholics. When you added the number of other Byzantine Catholics (Ukrainians, Russian, Melkite, etc) it came out about even. To the Latin posters I ask you to keep your problems with your Church to yourselves and stop trying to make us over in your image. If you are on this forum it should be to learn about your Eastern brothers and sisters, if you are here for any other reason it would be best for you to leave. To my Eastern brothers and sisters, I ask you not to help keep the focus of our discussions on OUR Churches,theology, customs and traditions. There are plenty of other forums where the Western problems can be dealt with, let those discussions be dealt with there. Don

Where did you hear that Greg Bronson Doxed out? I knew him up until June 2002, and he was thoroughly Catholic. He was a college student and mentioned to my husband that he just didn't have much time to keep Byzantines.net going, what with school and all. He was engaged to a girl from a staunch Tridentine family. I find it highly doubtful that Greg Doxed out. He probably just went away to college and didn't have time for the board anymore. Also his mother told me back then that they were having server problems. Maybe they just gave up on it.

Tammy

Tammy,

If I remember correctly Greg did become Orthodox and then returned to the Catholic Church.

In Christ,
Anthony

Dave,

I am not the administrator. But let me tell you of my experiances. I use my real name as my user name in this forum. Throughout the year I get around and meet differant people throughout the Metropolia of Pittsburgh. I get a lot of comments on my postings and the Pilgrimage photos that appear in this forum. A lot of these comments come from people who I have never seen post in this forum. I have even asked them if they post here.

You would be surprised who is reading these forums !!!

Joe Prokopchak
a sinner in much need of God's mercy

Now, that's what I like to hear

God bless,

Rony

Thanks to all who have posted in this thread.

I would especially like to thank our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters for their posts. If occasionally you have felt unclear about the purpose of this Forum or, at times, unwelcome, I apologize. To me this means that we need to redouble our efforts to be more welcoming and perhaps make a change to some of the text (in the forum rules and at the bottom of the page). I am on travel at the moment (and a 28.8 connection is the best I can get!) but I will make some changes in the future.

Can I raise a point for discussion and ask for your thoughts? It seems that the real issue might be simply that there are so many Roman Catholics and so few of us Eastern Christians in the English-speaking world. As several posters have noted, the vast majority of Roman Catholics are friendly and well meaning. Yet it can become cumbersome to constantly re-introduce ourselves to newcomers. I specifically ask for your suggestions to better present Eastern Christianity to Roman Catholics.

I think the main thing is patience; I know it can get old, having to explain ourselves over and over to Romans, but remember that to each of them who come here curious it is new. If they take their faith seriously they will try to harmonize what they are learning with their own understanding of the Faith. Try not to be offended by this unless they are obviously hostile. And again it should be clearer that this is not a Catholic site. If I had known this the tone of several of my postings would have been quite different. I know it is clearly stated in the guidelines but I think I am not alone in not reading all the fine print before I sign something.
And Lonely Hermit: The scene you sketch, of masses of RCs being thrown out of their Church and finding a home in ECUSA is almost laughably off. First, I have seen no evidence that anyone is being thrown out of the Church. Would that at least a few notorious public sinners were! Secondly, all statistics show that the ECUSA is dwindling in numbers, not growing. I suppose they may pick up a few dissident Catholics but it is statistically insignificant. And the Roman Catholic Church is among the fastest growing religious bodies in the USA....

For an official report on the Catholic Church in the U.S., the USCCB published the following in December 2003:

--82,292 were admitted into full communion (converts); and

--81,013 adults and 1,05,490 infants were baptized.

The full report is here [usccb.org]

AmdG