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#163853 10/16/03 01:18 AM
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I propose this to be a thread in which members can post updates as to the Anglican conference in Lambeth Palace going on today and tomorrow, as well as the results of the meeting.

So, does anyone have any news from the first day (Wednesday 10/15/03)? I read some of the Archbishop/archlayman/arch-whatever-you-want-to-call-him-but-this-isn't-the-topic-of-this-thread-so-don't-go-off-on-a-"title"-tangent of Armagh's comments. Basically all he said was that the conversations were as honet and frank as he'd ever seen in a conference of this magnitude. Last I heard, consensus on something was being reached, but I have no idea what that "something" is.

Logos Teen

#163854 10/16/03 01:39 AM
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According to the BBC, there should be no statement to the press from the Anglican Bishops
until Thursday Evening.

And yes, Teen, he is the Archbishop of Armagh for the Anglican Church of Ireland :rolleyes:

#163855 10/16/03 01:44 AM
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OK, Thursday evening it is! Now, what time is that in Eastern Standard Time, because I'm assuming they mean Thursday evening in London?

And Brian, I said NO comment about the title!! Always gotta stick your hand in the cookie jar! wink

Logos Teen

#163856 10/16/03 02:55 PM
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Dear Friends,

When Pope St Gregory saw two Angle slaves at Rome, he was intrigued by them and asked who they were.

When told they were Angles, he said, as we know: "Not Angles, but Angels!"

One contemporary Anglican writer wrote a book, entitled, "Not Angels, but Anglicans."

I think having a whole lot of Anglican Use Catholics will be a bonus for the West.

Anglicans, come on down!

Alex

#163857 10/16/03 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Brian:


And yes, Teen, he is the Archbishop of Armagh for the Anglican Church of Ireland :rolleyes:
This is such a sore spot for me.

The Puritans and Anglicans came in, took our lands, destroyed our nobility, murdered our priests, starved us, outlawed our language and our music, and then they have the nerve to steal our beautiful Churches and Episcopal sees!!! mad

I know that I must forgive all men from my heart, and I do--but they still have the gall to call themselves the "Church of Ireland" and that kills me.

Hibernia semper fidelis!!!!

LatinTrad

#163858 10/16/03 04:33 PM
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yes, and an Anglican High Church politician named Gladstone disestablished the Anglican Church of Ireland and helped the Roman Catholic Church there. Again, these things are not one-sided and I'm of Irish heritage and I tell you it HURTS to say that an Englishman did anything good!!!! wink

#163859 10/16/03 04:36 PM
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Brian--Go raibh maith agat, you are right!

#163860 10/16/03 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos:


So, does anyone have any news from the first day (Wednesday 10/15/03)? I read some of the Archbishop/archlayman/arch-whatever-you-want-to-call-him-but-this-isn't-the-topic-of-this-thread-so-don't-go-off-on-a-"title"-tangent of Armagh's comments. Basically all he said was that the conversations were as honet and frank as he'd ever seen in a conference of this magnitude. Last I heard, consensus on something was being reached, but I have no idea what that "something" is.

Logos Teen
Teen,

You might also check the Ship of Fools Bulletin Board (which has a lot of Anglican participation among other Faiths) for updates on this as well.

http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/

#163861 10/16/03 04:40 PM
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Dear LT and Brian,

Ah, so I'm among Irishmen, I see! wink

Let's also not forget that it was a Pope who gave King Henry VIII the Harp of Tara - the English did not plunder it themselves.

I have an Irish aunt - does that count for anything?

I also wrote a law to declare St Patrick's Day a provincial day of observance in Ontario - well?

And the Anglican King Charles I was actually accused by the puritans of going easy on the Irish (and of making war on his own co-nationals, the Scots who were Protestant).

I believe the King said, in response, words to the effect "can I help it if the Irish have a greater understanding of their loyalty to me than the Scots?"

I understand there is a group of about 260 Irish Catholic martyrs - have these been beatified yet?

Alex

#163862 10/17/03 05:22 AM
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ANGLICAN COMMUNION NEWS SERVICE
ACNS 3634 | ENGLAND | 16 OCTOBER 2003

Archbishop of Canterbury's statement at the final press conference of the Primates' Meeting

Good evening everyone. Thank you very much for joining us. I hope you've had a chance, at least, to glance at the statement which has been produced by our meeting which has, in fact, been unanimously agreed by the meeting of the primates. And I'd like to offer a few words of introduction to this before we turn to questions.

It has been a very remarkable couple of days in the life of the Anglican Communion and it has certainly been anything but easy. It has not been without pain. But it has been honest and open and I hope that we have grown in some real shared understanding as a result. And I do want to take this opportunity of paying tribute to my colleagues in the Communion for all the dedication and the energy and steadfastness in Christian service that they show generally and that they have shown in these two demanding days.

Such understanding as we've achieved has been very hard won and it couldn't have been otherwise given the enormous challenges that we have faced in these two days and the very widely differing positions that we have brought to them. That makes our work together all the more significant. We have, very emphatically, found the will to keep talking and working together . In short we have grown closer together rather than, as many people predicted, further apart during this meeting. And that is what matters most to all of us and what I think renders any talk of winners and losers in this irrelevant.

Now it's quite clear from our discussions that issues around human sexuality will continue to be difficult and divisive for the Anglican Communion, as they are for many Christians. These issues will continue to cause pain and anger, misunderstanding and resentment all around. But I must make it clear that the Primates' Meeting has no legal jurisdiction, it's not a supreme court of the Communion and it would have been rather surprising had we been able, at this gathering, to make all the problems go away at once. We haven't. The challenge we have worked hard to meet has been to find some way of coping with divisive issues as a Communion. So these two days have not been primarily a seminar on sexuality or an attempt to revisit discussions and decisions already taken, but rather an attempt to see what it means to be in Communion and that remains our shared commitment.

A word about Communion: people have talked about being in or out of Communion within our Church. The fact is, of course, as came out very clearly in our discussions, that Communion means a great many things, and means more than simply a set of structures, a regular pattern of meetings between Primates or any other official leaders. Communion means the Mother's Union group from Lancashire going to visit Burundi, it mean the youth workers in the West Indies going to spend five years in the United States, and all manner of things like that. It means the existing close relationships between provinces as, for a long time, between Australia and Papua New Guinea whereby the life and the resource of different bits of the Communion is shared . So the degree to which we are in or out of Communion, as between local churches, is never that easy to determine. Having said that, a superficial unity just clinging to structural forms for the sake of it is not at all what we are about. That's why I emphasise the deeper levels of Communion.

I believe that the family we belong to, the family of the Anglican Church around the globe, has to be an instrument of God's love for the world and that means that, in seeking to hold together as a Communion, we have to be seeking to serve that purpose and no other. So by attempting to work through our differences within our family we may come to a better discernment of what we're called to be in mission. I must say that some of the hardest issues that were presented to us in the last few days were ways in which mission can be affected in one part of the world by what happens in another.

So we look outwards again at the wider world we're in: a world that has remained in the focus of our prayers in our time together and we can be in no doubt about the work that is still to be done by the Church of God at large. And that greater challenge we attempt to look and in the service of that calling we have met and deliberated and sought God's guidance. What has emerged I think is a statement - an honest statement - of where we are, a statement of our willingness to work together and a recognition of the obstacles in that working together which we still face, but also some suggestions as to how we might cope with those obstacles. Thank you.
(emphasis mine) It looks to me like nothing has changed. No one has control of the rudder.

A second point I might make is that there is a definately big hint in this statement about cooperation between the first and third worlds. A marriage of convenience?

M

#163863 10/18/03 01:56 PM
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Alex said: Ah, so I'm among Irishmen, I see!
Count me in, too! My grandfather's family is from Ireland (Kilkenny County). I'm a direct descendant of Niall of the Nine Hostages. I'm sure you Irish-fanatics know who that is. wink

Coalesco,

Yes, I thought as much from the very genesis of this conference. As we all know, Rowan Williams has no real authority in the Anglican Communion; at least not moreso than any other bishop. It'll be interesting to see the reactions of traditional Anglicans.

One of my best friends is Episcopalian. His family is now searching for a new denomination because of V. Gene Robinson.

Logos Teen

#163864 10/18/03 02:29 PM
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Another point I should make is that (according to the statement posted above). There is some confusion among the Anglicans about what communion actually means.

Of course, I don't believe they are confused about what communion means, some among them are engaged in a process of redefining communion, insofar as the old (traditional) concept is no longer operative for them.

This can only take them further from western Catholicism, and the eastern churches.

Unfortunately, this would follow a pattern the Anglicans have been persuing for oh so many years. Rather than oppose the sin of practicing homosexuality it is preferable to redefine it. And rather than heal a fragmenting communion it is more convenient to redefine it.

It seems clear that Vicki Gene Robinson is to be securely installed as a bishop, the (P)ECUSA is going to hold the dollar over the heads of the churchmen around the world to make it possible. One wonders if the rest of the Anglican hierarchy will have the will it takes to deal with it appropriately.

M

#163865 10/19/03 02:31 AM
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Dr Williams' message makes it clear that nothing will be done. The better liberals will "feel the pain" of the traditionalists but the inner collapse of Anglicanism will continue.Let us hope that the African bishops [and other traditionalists] will have the clarity to break with an apostate church and let us hope that the Catholic Church will realize that there is no future in ecumenical relations with such apostates as the Anglican religious establishment and make room for them. We could do worse than having an Anglican rite. I know that Rome has backed away from so-called "uniatism" but clearly the Anglican communion is not remotely akin to the Orthodox in this age and are intent on sacking what remains of their Christian patrimony.
I am also Irish, though in truth my ancestors - from Counties Down and Tyrone- were Irish Protestants. I identify with the long history of Irish Protestant nationalists...
I remember a book I picked up a few years back on Celtic spirituality by an Anglican priest. He went on and on about how horrible the Roman Church was to the Irish. I mean, the gall...

#163866 10/19/03 07:59 PM
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My Irish ancestry is Protestant through Ulster. I make a point of donning something orange on Saint Patrick's day, helps to confuse everyone! biggrin

#163867 10/19/03 08:05 PM
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Coalesco,

Make sure you are never in Boston on St Pat's wearing Orange or parts of Derry !!!!!

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