www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News The "Petrine Ministry" Revisited

Anton,

Certainly, historically speaking, the Ukrainian people and Churches especially have quite a lot of reasons to be Russophobic frankly. Sometimes it does go over the top and into extremes but there is a history of imposed Russification etc. The Ukrainian Church was and is not the only victim of this. The Georgian Church for example was also the victim of forced Russification.
and, i am a Russophile actually not a Ukrainian nationalist

Anton, do you realize this is a Greek Catholic forum? "Not particularly Christian?" Us "ashamed"? Why should anyone be ashamed of historic fact? Alexei made his bed early in life with his association with the KGB and Soviet regime and he must now lie in it. He should be ashamed for participating in the suppresion of other Christian churches, not us.

And considering the erection of Orthodox dioceses in traditionally Roman Catholic countries (South America, Western Europe) the whole issue about proselytization coming from the MP is really farcical. We all still remember the MP accusing Constantinople of proselytization when the Estonians canonically asked to be under the omphorion of Constantinople.

If the MP was doing a better job of evangelizing, building enthusiasm and fervor amongst its own people, especially considiring the favored status it has in its homeland over most churches in the world with the exception of some traditionalist Muslim countries, the fruits would be obvious and there would be no need for the MP's paranoid response as the parishes would be full and the people happy where they worship.

Why should people be denied the right to worship in the UOC/KP, UGCC, Roman, Armenian, etc. churchs in Ukraine? How come outside of Russia there is a clamor for religious freedom but it is always a different story with Alexei inside Russia? We are all weary of this nonsense. Just ask Father Gleb Yakunin, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, et. al.

Unfortunately with Alexei's background he will never be taken seriously outside of parts of the Orthodox world. His childish reactions to the visit in Ukraine are a perfect example of how he illegitimizes himself without any help from the outside. Even the corrupt secular press in Ukraine caught onto this. I contrast this to the decorum and worldwide respect for the Holy Father.

Brian, like you I love the Russian people and their liturgical and cultural heritage, having also been accused more than once of being a Russophile by my own people. I am a Sovietophobe, not a Russophobe. I personally know or have read about too many people who suffered under Soviet persecution to be otherwise. This includes members of the Russian Orthodox Church who also suffered greatly.

Having completed the rant, please forgive me an archsinner.

Of course I realise that this is a Byzantine Catholic Forum, but its appears thatthere IS some kind of Ukraninian nationalism. His Holiness Patriarch Alexis II is the leader of the Russian Church, and as one of the prelates, he is worthy of our love, honour and respect. "The Russian Church persecuted Us" - well the Turks misruled us for 500 and Bulgarians actually get on quite well with them. Fine...then perhaps its high time that the East elected an Orthodox Patriarch/Bishop/Pope of Rome?

Dear Anton,

I will confirm that there definitely IS a Ukrainian nationalism!

If it is a disease, then everyone else in Eastern Europe, including Russia, is infected with it.

This is an issue where emotions rule and perhaps it is a good idea to just not get into these topics since they always seem to end on a sour note.

For all its faults, the MP is a canonical Church and is the Church of Russia.

Time heals all wounds, they say, and wounds all heels.

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diak:

"We all still remember the MP accusing Constantinople of proselytization when the Estonians canonically asked to be under the omphorion of Constantinople."

You mean when a MINORITY of the Orthodox parishes in Estonia were recieved into the juridiction of Constantinople WITHOUT A CANONICAL RELEASE, allthough the Estonian Orthodox Church allways, except for a short time during the interwar period, have been in the jurisdiction of Moscow, and a majority of parishes still remain so today, including many ethnic Estonian ones??

Christian

Anton I:

You raised:

and I propose that the question be, as I have hereby, rendered non-rethorical.

For starters, under the current set-up any Eastern Patriarch/Metropolitan desiring to become the Pope or the Supreme Pontiff of the universal Church MUST be a member of the Sacred College of Cardinals.

Of the 21 chief hierarchs of the Eastern (Orthodox) Churches in communion with Rome, ONLY 4 thus far wear the red biretta offered by His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, out of 171? or 170? living Cardinals.

So, let the "campaign" begin for the world's Eastern and Oriental Orthodox patriarchs and metropolitans to "seek" the cardinalate in the Church of Rome!

Let the Sacred College blossom with the participation of as many as Eastern hierarchs that can be accommodated during the next conclave, which is fast approaching.

Do you wish to proceed?


Amado

Well historically speaking, the college of cardinal only really began having proper power in the ninth century but did not finalise their place as electors until much later - I think when Alexander III issued his electoral decree. And I'll turn you on the side as well....fine, then we can elect our own college of Orthodox Cardinals who will then elect an Orthodox Pope? Simple, no?


Anton




P.S. Why should any Eastern Hieratch burden themselves with the title of Cardinal if they are already a Patriarch? The latter is so much grander than the former...

Dear Anton,

Yours is a cardinal point!

(I'd better spend my time praying the Psalms, correct?)

Alex

My dear Alex...

puns...puns...tsch...

Dear Anton,

I'll take that as a "oui!"

My boss is going to work in London, England for the "London Racers" did you know!

Alex

"London Racers" *scratches head* Never heard of them...but then I am slightly tipsy...

Dear Anton,

They have a website: www.londonracers.com [londonracers.com]

The new coach is my current boss and his picture is there.

Alex

Ice hockey right.....ah OK...that's why I've never heard of them!

Still, no American has ever given me an excuse for that sorry sport you call "American Football"....I mean......its for people who are afraid to play proper rugby...

Dear Anton,

Ah, but I'm no American.

I'm a humble subject of Her Majesty The Queen.

Just like you!

Alex