www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Who Will Kill the Pope in Istanbul?

Edwin,

This is something I know something about. The French lost because they invested heavily in that stupid mazino line. They simply got out smarted.

On your other issues, you can't compare the democracy of the ancient world to the democracies of today. We live in a totally different world.

Regarding your other examples we were fighting WWIII (i.e. Cold War), which we did NOT start.

President Bush is probably the BEST president this country has EVER had! He sees the threat as that of Adolf Hitler before WWII. If we don't take action we are in for a much bigger problem. President Bush has the moral courage to take charge. Thank God for him!

Of course, this must be subject to the judgement of history but this is HIGHLY dubious LOL

Considering the opposition of the world toward what he is trying to do and vast amounts of misunderstanding of the US public. I give him an A+ for continuing his efforts.

I am afraid if it wasn't for W we would be facing a much greater crisis in the world today.

Who's Edwin? :p

One of the curious things one gains from a study of history is how little things change over the centuries. Motivations don't change, human ideas don't change all that, and a lying head of state is the same throughout history. Those who do not know history are destined to repeat it.

Vietnam? Korea? Greece? Iran? Cyprus? Haiti? Argentina? Columbia? Spain? Portugal? Taiwan? What planet are you living on? Cold War doesn't even come into the picture. To suggest so is disingenuous, to say the least.

If anything, American meddling in Korea and Vietnam, supporting the brutal right-wing military dictatorships, were the straw that broke the camel's back, causing public opinion to swing the other way in support of the communists.

I'm not even going to try to trumpet the cause in support of governments behaving morally. I'm a realist. I know that politics are dirty, and that manipulation and meddling of other governments are entirely normal in international affairs. This is the way the world works, and I accept it. The world accepts it.

What the world will not accept is when one of these major meddlers tries to act like a angel.

To crow about spreading democracy while supporting murderous dictatorships is hypocrisy.

To talk about disarming some alleged rogue-nations while supplying Israel with arms to bomb Palestinians and Lebanese is duplicity.

To talk about human rights and give China grief for executing criminals while at the same time running a school to produce assassins and human rights violators is sanctimonious

To support Bosnian and Kosovan terrorists attempting independence from Serbia, while threatening to nuke China if she should ever attempt to recover Taiwan by force, is cant.

To loudly proclaim freedom and justice for all the world, while supplying and training the men who killed Archbishop Oscar Romero, is obscenity of the worst order.

If you say 'my country, right or wrong', that is understandable. We all have our biases and loyalties. What the world is tired of hearing is 'my country can do no wrong'.

Thank God for Bush, certainly. Glory to God for all things, both good and bad.

As for your comment that Bush is 'probably the BEST president this country has EVER had', you're certainly entitled to your opinion, though it's rather like the 14-yos who yell 'Huh? Callas? Domingo? Crosby? Sinatra? Who're they? Everyone knows Britney's the BEST SINGER, like, EVER!'.

On the other hand, the world considers Bush to rank up there with Johnson and Nixon.

Perhaps he does have moral courage - even if he is seriously misguided and singularly ill-advised. What he certainly lacks is honesty, integrity, and intelligence.

'He sees the threat as that of Adolf Hitler before WWII.' - that's quite amusing really. Bush pushed for the invasion of Iraq on the flimsy fictional pretext that Iraq was a danger to America and in cahoots with Al-Qaida. You may recall that Hitler too, was rather fond of invading sovereign countries on flimsy fictional pretexts. I would urge you to be more careful with your historical comparisons, for the door opens both ways.

just a thought in retrospect. a few nights ago, I watched , not for the first time, the movie "Tora, Tora, Tora". how right Admiral Yamamoto was when he put a wet blanket on the inane rejoicing of his junior officers after the attack at Pearl Harbor by warning that Japan had awakened a sleeping giant. how right he was, and he remains one of my favorite historical figures. ever since WW 2, for better or worse, regardless of the issue, and how each of you may feel about a given issue involving our foreign policy, the sleeping giant is still awake. there are times I wish I could go back and change history and somehow prevent Pearl Harbor. the giant has a tiger by the tail in the world arena, and dare not let go. pray for our country.
Much Love,
Jonn

Edward, Your posts are great, keep it up.

Peace,
Indigo

Yeah, Bush lacks intelligence - a trademark smear form the Radical Left. How many Pax Christi members have a Harvard MBA?

Yeah, Americans trained the killers of Romero - more School of the Americas bashing from Pax Christi.

Iraq's dictatorship attempted the assasination of the first President Bush. Since he was a Republican, I guess that makes it okay with some people. Iraq consistenly violated UN resolutions including the no-fly zone and, according to the Polish who found them, WMD. How many suicide bombers have there been since Hussein was caught? Not many!

Iraq and Al-Qaeda were in "cahoots", the Senate report notwithstanding. ABC News reported on this extensively in 1999. If the Senate chose to disregard this - Hussein did invite bin Laden to Iraq -
then it shows the complete stupidity of the Senate.
Given the majority of Senators are imbiciles, i put no trust in the Senate report. That report was a CYA exercise from start to finish.

Notice the Duelfer Report has been forgotten.

The "world" considers Bush to be on a level with Johnson and Nixon? The same "world" that loved Bill Clinton, who gave nuke technology to China, ignored the gathering terrorist threat and spent more time wiht Yasser Arafat - the nephew of Hitler's Mufti - than any other "political leader"?

I am no big proponent of Dubya. As a fiscal conservative, his domestic spending, along with his signing off of the unconstitutional McCain-Feingold "campaign finance reform" and his support for the mornign after pill, have left me disgusted.

What I am tired of is the constant blathering from the Moonbat Left and the Always Blame America First crowd. Anybody who thinks 9/11 would not have happened if Al Gore, with his 500,000 popular vote plurality made up of illegal aliens and the dead had won, is beyond nuts.

Dear Edward you said:

I say:

I would like to inform you that Saddam was shooting at our planes each and everyday... against the treaty that was signed by him at the end of the first Iraq war. Also, I believe he went against more than ten resolutions at the U.N. proving that it was totally irrevalent.

You said:
I say:

The Greeks lived for war, with a little peace in between. I was talking about modern democracies.

You said:
I say:

You know, we, and especially the Republicans are historically 'isolationists'. Others persuaded us to be otherwise.

You said:

I say:

As I stated before, we know and suffer the experiences of our past inactions. We do not know what our experiences nor sufferings would have been if we had not acted. Somehow or other, I don't exactly see the Soviet Union as having been a successful state, nor a state with concern for it's citizens. So in that sense, even though our policies might not have been the most idealistic, my government protected it's citizens in the only way it could. The alternative would have been a similar athiestic and unproductive government as the Soviet Union, or a nuclear war.

You said: I say:

There's an old saying, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The alternative to supporting them was much worse. I refer you to my above statements about the Soviet Union.

You said:
I say:

Again I refer you to my above statement about the Soviet Union.

You said: I say:

And Pres. Reagan dissolved the Soviet Union.

You said: I say:

What exactly was going on? I seem to remember Pope John Paul II being a little upset at some members of his Church supporting communist regimes.

You said: I say:

Again I ask you what the alternative would have been? And again I refer you to Pope John Paul II.

You said:
I say:

The fault was with the Makarios government and with the people of Greece. Turkey is an opportunist nation, and the Greek people with their propaganda against the Greek dictatorship gave Turkey her opportunity to invade. Arch. Makarios did too when he turned to the Soviet Union threatening the free world. [/QUOTE]

You said: I say:

This reminds me of what Anna Comnena said when asked why her father the Emporor was always at war. She said we are the Empire and people are jealous. How do you like that one? :p

You quoted me as saying: He said I give President Bush though credit for at least trying. Had England and France done the same before WW II, that war would have been prevented. All it needed was one brave French man to shoot at the Germans when they marched into the Rhineland, and the Germans had orders to retreat...and it would have been the end for Adolph Hitler. Germany was not ready for a war. [/QUOTE]

And you said: I say:

Nonsense! They found the German papers after the war giving the command to retreat if the French fired one shot. As for when he marched into Austria, they were fearful their tanks would break down.

You said: I say:

One can only relate to that which they know, rarely to that which they don't know. Now as an American I can say Pres. Bush is the most sincere man I have ever known, and his administration the most moral and honest one that I have known.

Of course he's made mistakes, but then everyone has.

I was quoted as saying: You said: I say:

That is up to the people of Taiwan to decide.

You quoted me as saying: You responded: I say:

Who knows, maybe some day it will.

Hey what difference Taiwan? Look Cyprus was promised to Greece during both the First and Second World War, and England never gave it to Greece. It would have been been too precarious for Britain, as it was part of Britains life line...and Greece was so unstable. Had it not been so, the USA and Britain would never had allowed the Turkish invasion.

Cyprus on the other hand, was enjoying the special favors granted her by Britain, with the intent that she wouldn't want to lower her standard of living by uniting with Greece, so that was that. China should get over it.
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Taiwan is an integral part of China. Her official name continues to be 'Republic of China'. She was taken by force from China by the Japanese at the turn of the century, and remains a symbol of Chinese humiliation at foreign hands as long as she is separate. At the current rate, China's standard of living will surpass Taiwan's within a decade, Taiwan will be petition for unity, and union will be acheived peacefully - as long as America doesn't keep supporting the small but vocal secessionist minority. Need I remind you that the current Taiwanese president is well-known for being Washington's lapdog, and had to fake an assasination attempt (like something out of a very bad horror flick) and engage in big-time election fraud to stay in power the last time Taiwan had elections?

You said: I say:

Cyprus is as much a part of Greece as was Crete, the Pelopenessus, etc. etc. The only difference was that it was kept by Britain because of it's strategic location. Greece has accepted the situation in the same way that it accepted the Greek majority being kicked out of Istanbul in the last century, and losing the Greek city of Izmir and the Western coast of Anatolia. Cyprus could care less. So much for humiliation. The well being of the individuals within a country is much more important.

You quoted me as saying:
You then said: I say:

We never referred to the French as 'cheese eating surrender monkeys', that is not our terminology. But as far as the French are concerned, we have a love hate relationship.

GYou said: I say:

People can only see us through their own situation. Dare I say, had any other nation been in the position that we are in, would they have been more charitable and compassionate?

Zenovia

To everyone,

I would like to apologize for the many errors made in my past post. It was posted before I could correct it, and unfortunately before I realized that it had been posted.

Gosh it was a long reply, but I'm getting very touchy lately about world politics and people slamming America.

Zenovia

Dear Edward you said:

I say:

We are not the world's policeman. We can only interfere when it directly affects us. Besides those dictatorships were supported under different administrations and during a different era. There was a cold war going on.

You said: I say:

Israel is supplied in order to defend itself from those that have STATED that she does not have a right to exist as a Jewish entity. What would you have us do? Can we do otherwise as long as those nations continue to threaten Israel?

You said: I say:

It was a different era. We were trying to avoid a nuclear war. Besides, many of those pressures are placed on our government by different groups, etc.

You said: I say:

We gave our word to Taiwan. Besides what's this 'humiliation' thing. These concepts are alien to us...certainly not part of our culture. But then again, I forgot about Nazi Germany and how it wanted to take away the humiliation of it's defeat in WW I. It was a time of severe economic depression. Funny how those concepts of humiliation cease when nations have prosperity.

Maybe that's what Pres. Bush was hoping for in the Middle East. If they could have freedom and prosperity, maybe they'll forget about this humiliation thing. After all, they too were humiliated when the lines were drawn in the sand by Britain and creating rich and poor nations.

As for Kosovo, I agree with you. We had no right to interfere in a civil war. But then again, that was the Clinton administration and Madeline Allbright...not to mention CNN that was paying the Kosovan Albanians five dollars for each time they were seen exiting Kosovo. CNN had it on TV from morning until night, in order to arouse the American people.

You said: I say:

No one says my country can do no wrong, but insulting us is a different story. Look, everything is relative. Would any nation in our position have been better?

You gave the following quote: I say:

I agree with that quote.

You said: I say:

It shows their stupidity. Actually, it shows that they are reading and watching our liberal newspapers and TV. Our media is biased!

You said: I say:

Actually honesty, integrity and intelligence is what he does have. Besides going to Yale and then to Harvard, he is a true Christian, and his policies are quite brilliant.

Unfortunately though he's not glib tongued, nor is he willing to speak out of both sides of his mouth or put his hand in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. Nor is he willing to copy the laws of the morally lax Northern Europeans countries. But I guess deception is what the world really wants, and Pres. Bush just doesn't have it.

You said: I say:

Uh Edward, you are listening to Democrat propaganda. The facts are that the head of the CIA George Tenet, who was given the position by Pres. Clinton, told him that Iraq had those weapons. But Tenet is not to blame. After the Soviet Union broke up, the CIA's funds were cut drastically, and they were not able to obtain information and had to rely on foreign sources.

You said:

I say:

If I recall, the Nazi's were killing people. I believe three million were killed in the battle of Leningrad, twenty thousand when Belgrade was bombed, Warsaw was completely demolished, etc., etc. As I see the present day events, the terrorists killing people each day are not Americans.

I'm also beginning to realize where people in this world are getting their rediculous idea's from. It's none other than foreign propagand from those very nations that have threatened us, as well as our own ridiculous liberal media. :rolleyes:

Zenovia

I would point out that there quite a few American-yes, even some Christians-who would claim exactly the opposite.

Sincerely,
Ryan

Athanasius The Lesser,

Considering that some Catholic clergy have suggested that voting Democratic is a mortal sin and since they (Democrats) support abortion I would have say those Christians should exam their conscience before voting against anti-abortion candidates (Republicans).

War in Iraq is not the same as the war against the unborn. Millions of innocent babies have died. This crime screams from the Heavens for justice!

Certainly you see the opposite form of craziness on this part of the Forum from the extreme Right!

yes, I guess our media is biased when it doesn't agree with our biases and worldview. I can say that I think FOX News is biased along with the other right-wing news sources. I admit that is bias . Will others admit the same on the Right?

and Mr Casey the Pro-Life Democratic Senate candidate would agree with you!!!