www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Vote: Prosphora Loaves or Pre-Cut Pieces?

Of course, this is not a scientific poll. It is simply a question for those of us here who like to vote in polls.

What is your view as to the importance of restoring prosphora traditions to Byzantine/Greek Catholic parishes as part our spiritual renewal?

Restoring prosphora traditions includes whole loaves, stamped with a seal, which are cut up during the proskomedia service in the traditional way. It also includes the distribution of antidoron at the end of Liturgy.

"Pre-cut pieces" are cubed pieces of bread cut up beforehand which are the usual practice of most Ruthenian and Ukrainian Catholic parishes.

Vote: Prosphora Loaves or Pre-Cut Pieces? single choice
	Restoring traditional prosphora traditions is an important part of Byzantine/Greek Catholic liturgical renewal
	Retaining the current practice of pre-cut pieces is to be preferred
	No opinion.
Votes accepted starting: 01/01/70 12:00 AM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

Why are all our parishes not be doing this already? The directives from Rome are very clear on the restoration of our rich traditions.

John S. asks "Why are all our parishes not be doing this already?"

Because this depends on the priest - and you'd be amazed at some of the, er, "half-baked" excuses I've heard from clergy who ought to know better!

My favorite is a priest who has a doctorate in liturgiology and is employed at a Catholic university to teach liturgiology - and who tried to tell me that it's better to use Tupperware and pre-cut particles. No, I am NOT making that up!

Incognitus

nec aliter,

How do you know that the current practice of most is the use of pre-cut?

CDL

Probably anecdotal evidence.



Nick

I'd be pleased to hear that the situation had changed and that our parishes had restored the traditional practice. Please post if your parish has done so.

For those who do not know how the traditional service goes, here's a link to a video of it.

Proskomedia Service Video--Modem Speed [stgeorgegreenville.org]

Proskomedia Service Video--Cable/DSL Speed [stgeorgegreenville.org]

It's from a Greek parish in South Carolina.

Catechesis about proskomedia could help bakers to understand better their role. There are occasions when the parishioner arrives with the pre-cut prosphora late enough that the service may have to be delayed a little in order for the proskomedia prayers to be prayed. If it were an uncut loaf, it would take even longer, unless servers are designated to cut up the rest, as is usually the case where the priest starts with an intact loaf. I'm for the priest using an intact loaf, but there is more work involved, and it is their call, of course. Educating the bakers about pious practices in proskomedia would help pave the way for change where it can happen.

Hi.

Thank you for the link to the Proskomedia. As I watched this, I noticed a couple of things-

1. As the priest cut the lamb, it appears he left the top of the bread on it (the crust). Is this standard?

2. Also, I noticed the crust of the bread on the other pieces.

3. Last but not least, I was surprised that he did not cut more of the loaf for communion. We normally have 100+ pieces, without the crust, for communion.

I am sure the Father cut the triangular piece for Our Theotokos, but did not see that. It appeared he was creating a groove with a sawing motion in the bread for additional cutting and it seemed that the crumbs were deliberately placed on the paten.

I can recall receiving once and the bread appeared dark so now I must assume this was from an actual Proskomedia as opposed to using pre-cut particles?

I would appreciate it if someone helped me out here.

Thank you.

Michael

. . . and how many angels can fit on the top of a crumb of pre-cut communion bread . . .?

Alex

On a pre-cut? None - they wouldn't ever think of touching one of those!

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Yes, by all means, let's add another 15 minutes to the Liturgy and watch even more people slip off to the Latin Church.

Would that really add any time to the Liturgy? I think it might make more work for the priest before Liturgy begins but that's about all I can think of. Or, am I missing something?

I have seen priests usually do it 10-15 minutes before the service while people are still comming into the church.

It does not add to the time of the Divine Liturgy from what i have seen.

The priest in the video does the Sign of the Cross a bit odd.

-uc

Michael, I believe it is standard for the imprint of the seal to remain in tact on the top of the Lamb until it is split and placed in the chalice.

In our parish the Prosphora is baked in advance and given to Father to store so he knows how much he has. We were given a rule of prayer to follow when we bake Prosphora at our house. We can also ask for specific memorials when the particles are cut. Different people have their own recipes, so you will get some variety.

Father does the Proskomedia about 15 minutes before the start of Orthros. One of the altar boys can then later prepare the antidoron for distribution, which takes place following both communion and the veneration of the cross.

Andrew

Dear Friends,

The cutting of the five loaves (SEVEN if you are a priestly Old Believer) by the Priest is truly beautiful and should be encouraged by all means!

I have a preserved loaf from Ukraine from the Monastery of Pochaiv where they have a special Communion bread stamp/seal for the second loaf dedicated to the Mother of God - the seal depicts the Holy Footprint of the Mother of God, the Shrine of Pochaiv!

I have it and it's all mine . . .

Alex