www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Vote: Prosphora Loaves or Pre-Cut Pieces?

Does anyone know if the restoration of prosphora traditions has been discussed by the Liturgical Commission? Is there a move to restore it?

Pane Doktor,

Pochayiv.

-uc

Ssssh uc -- my Parish is St Andrew and Our Lady of Pochaev

Alex

In our church, which I think is standard in the Greek tradition, all the commemorations come from one loaf.

I'm also surprised by the comments I've read in this thread regarding time. Considering what I would gues is the standard - 1 hour for Orthros and an hour and a half for the liturgy (aside from feast days) - the Proskomedia is quite short. How could that bother anyone? It seems to me all of these form an integral whole anyway as far as the celebration of the liturgy goes.

I also don't understand how commemorations could be made if the faithful aren't offering the Prosphora and if it isn't prepared by the priests. How is that handled? I also can't conceive of not having antidoron. When was that tradition abandoned?

Andrew

The funny thing is with the rush in some places to out Latinise each other, they never realised that there were Latin places that still had the blessed bread tradition in western Europe. My Mum told me of places she saw in Spain where this was the practice back in the late 1940s and in places in north Africa which had been under Spanish and French rule.

I wish "Rome" would issue some clear but strongly worded instruction to the Eastern Rite bishops to get a move on with the de-Latinisation stuff.

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Pavloosh,

If the parish members do not want "silent" time during the proskomedia, they could as a group do the Holy Rosary during that time. Would that not help? I understand this time to happen prior to Divine Liturgy.

Alex,

You stated:

Would not the answer be infinite?

Michael

Yes, by all means, let's return to our traditions and watch fewer people slip off to the Orthodox Church. :p

I think the simplification of the Divine Liturgy akes it even easier for people to slip off to the Latin Church. Keep making things plain, simple and easy, then why bother traveling across town to attend some sligtly odd EC service when there's a RC church right around the corner. What's the difference, really? . . .

Oυτις ημιν φιλει ου φροντιδα | Nemo Nos Diliget Non Curamus

Yes, by all means, let's return to our traditions and watch fewer people slip off to the Orthodox Church. :p

I think the simplification of the Divine Liturgy makes it even easier for people to slip off to the Latin Church. Keep making things plain, simple and easy, then why bother traveling across town to attend some sligtly odd EC service when there's a RC church right around the corner. What's the difference, really? . . .

Oυτις ημιν φιλει ου φροντιδα | Nemo Nos Diliget Non Curamus

Jim tells us that "it's the priest's call" whether to follow the service-book or not. This seems an unusual approach to such matters - I have the naive impression that the service-book is supposed to tell us all what to do, not to suggest ideas for the priest to ponder over during "Jesuit Vespers".

Since most of the congregation would not usually be present during the Prothesis, the use and cutting of the bread will not delay the time required for the public part of the Divine Liturgy. Still more to the point, we are discussing the worship of God, not a horse race. If people want to go off to the Latins, Godspeed!

Incognitus

TSK TSK TSK

Some folk can't count

I think in the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Metropolia, the lack of Proskemedia is a direct result of the lack of priests. Most priests in the entire Ruthenian Metropolia are serving at least two parishes if not more. My priest at my home parish has an 8:00 am Divine Liturgy (sans Matins, of coarse) at our smaller sister parish. He then has about two hours between the time that liturgy starts and the time that our main parishs's liturgy starts, 10:00 am. He barely has time to do a one hour liturgy there and then quickly drive the 10 to 12 miles to our parish. It is even worse during Great Lent because the St. Basil liturgy is much longer. Until vocations and ordinations increase (can you say married clergy?), most parishes won't be restoring proper Proskemedia anytime soon.

Ungcsertezs

I think those who dont do things properly started their practices ages ago. As for the Priest;s call. The Latins were remined last year that the liturgy is not the private play thing of the priest and they are to follow their missals. I do find it off that there are 2 functioning churches so close together and the poor man has to go from one to the other. I could at pinch see one early liturgy on one and one later in the other, I suppose.

ICXC
NIKA

In our Ruthenian BCC, our priest always does the proper Proskomedia with offered prosphora.

On Sundays, Proskomedia is done before Matins. It adds no time to Divine Liturgy. DL is timeless, so that doesn't matter anyway.

Our DL is typically an hour and twenty minutes in length ... and no one flees for a 45 minute Mass instead.

Incognitus, next time you decide to go to your parish priest and tell him what he is supposed to do, let me know.