www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Lent Jesuit Style

A friend send me this link this morning. It is lent Jesuit style.

Ash Wednesday by J.A. Loftus, S.J. [jucboston.org]

Unbelievable.

Another one of these Roman Church errors...

Via another forum I visited their site...I believe that they are a outreach to people suffering from HIV/AIDS and a different life style...other then that it is not my place to past judgement on them...

james

spdundas...

your post is a little aggressive, no? Why are you calling it another Roman error ?

It's worth reading the whole sermon - from the beginning. The point as I see it ought to strike a resonance on a Byzantine forum. The grave sin to contemplate during Lent is our failure to grow and abide in the completeness and perfection that God awesomely wills for us. And not to measure this sin by legalistic standards - either in taking the measure of ourselves or others.

It WAS worth reading the whole sermon--

It is just so much easier to confess that "I've lied to so and so, or lusted after so and so, or took thus and so from my office supply cabinet, or had mean thoughts about so and so," than it is to see that we often refuse to be humans, made in God's image and see other people as that as well, and thus, not realize our potential to love and have charity for others just as God has shown them to us. The consequences of denying that humanity made in the image of divinity are tragic.

That's what I took away from reading it. Considerably more challenging a talk than I'm used to.

So Lent is back for the Jesuits . I just hope there are some old priests still around who can tell them all about it from before the days they abolished it .

ICXC
NIKA

Hello,

I don't mean to shed a light on the Romans in a bad way at all.

It's just that...there are many things in the Roman Church that the Orthodox would NOT EVER put up with.

For example...I had a friend just a few days ago telling me that a Roman priest gave communion to President Clinton! I was like "WHAT!" (Sorry I was behind on that news). And I asked if the priest had been punished for doing that...and I found nothing on the internet about the priest being punished for it. The Orthodox would NEVER do that!

That is one SMALL SMALL SMALL example of MANY things that are happening in the Roman Church which the Orthodox wouldn't do or put up with.

What about Pope Benedict's weak guidelines on homosexual seminarians and priests? There is NO black and white clear cut definite list of what's gay and what's not gay. He pretty much left it up to each diocese to decide what it is...that is a huge leeway for it. That is NOT good at all.

The dioceses could turn away a perfectly good men who are heterosexual simply because one of the criteria makes him "gay" or VICE-VERSA allowing gay men become priests.

I don't have full confidence in what Pope Benedict is doing...and I don't feel that I entirely trust him. Not just because of that gay issue here..but on other issues as well...I just don't know what his agenda is...

That's all what I'm saying. There's NO harm done or anything...it's just the facts.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

SP-
I don't know many men in my area who wear mink hats, so I can't judge.
In any case, viewing 'Brokeback Mountain' is not on my list of things to do. I don't plan on having a "Brokeback Lent", whatever that is.

Sam

Would watching a movie that glorifies Homosexuality be considered an appropriate Lenten activity then? It really seems to me that the sermon is saying it is.

Doesn't this movie and its intentions represent the culture of death? How can this sermon be defended?

Andrew

I guess it depends on who is defending it.
Sam

Well if you dont like the style of delivery read soemthing you know that will raise you up and help you throught the Great Lent. I just read the last 2 paragraphs and that was enough for me. He makes a point but choosing that movie as an example was not the best choice of an example he could have used. I wonder who the audience was that this text was written for, as he makes a few points about being dishonest etc. I have not seen the film as it has not arrived here yet but I think from what I have read lies and being dishonest are part of the plot.

ICXC
NIKA

Mr Dundas- Don't underestimate the capacity of the Orthodox to tolerate evil; I knew of an abortionist who was a member in good standing of his GOA church; apparently his ethnicity was more important than the fact that he killed babies for money.
[This is not an anti-Orthodox post; merely a corrective to some who romanticize what is after all another institution composed of weak and sinful humans].

The "Brokeback Lent" line suggests several jokes, none of them suitable for this august forum...

-Daniel, exercising admirable restraint

DANIEL,

I would say that you contradicted yourself here. That is a major insult to Orthodox Christians! If anything in their history, Orhtodox Christian have endured the evil of the Turkish and Bolshevik yokes. Please retract what you have said.

I think the very same could be said about Catholics who over the centuries tollerated in the various countries (yours and mine) great evil and those who did these things were treated as honoured sons of the Church.

The comment mate was uncalled for and not fair.

ICXC
NIKA

Personal experience and the witness of history show that no communion of Christians is free from sin. Obviously, as with Catholics, among the Orthodox this is in spite of, not because of the Church [in the mystical and divine sense].
I retract nothing; are you saying my tale of the Orthodox abortionist is not true?
I can supply names, places, and dates if you wish. I even went and talked to his priest, who basically said that he's Greek and donates money to the parish. The priest even accompanied him to court when he was tried for a botched abortion!
What are you saying; that Orthodox Christians have never tolerated evil? Simply and verifiably untrue.
Again, this is not anti-Orthodox, any more than saying that Catholics have often failed the moral test is anti-Catholic. The context of my remark was a response to a post alleging that Catholics tolerate evils that the Orthodox never would, and should be seen in this context...

-Daniel

Daniel,

Everything you say is unfortunately, believable. Let us leave it at that.

I think I know you well enough by now, and I know that you meant no offense. For sure, that situation and others like it are scandalous to ALL.

Pray for the priests that give up their spiritual integrity for donations of money from parishioners who are openly in grave sin and even sometimes, apostasy (before I get cloberred about this word, yes I meant 'apostasy', as in NOT believing in Jesus as the son of God, or not believing in him at all).

This is one of the biggest shortcomings in my jurisdiction, but not in the Athonite monasteries of this country. They are growing in leaps and bounds by the pennies, not thousands of dollars, of the truly faithful who appreciate that everyone is treated and respected equally there in a true spirit of Christ.

NO one should be revered above the other because of their money. It does nothing beneficial for the soul of the particular wealthy parishioner, just as it does nothing beneficial for the soul of the particular priest, bishop, or archbishop who may have rationalized this practice.

The temptation of sin comes in many different forms to our clergy, both in the East and the West..let no one side look at the other's speck....

In Christ,
Alice

Yes, Alice, I have read of the spread of Athonite monasteries in the US; very impressive. That one in Arizona looks like a veritable heaven.

Thank you for not taking offense at my post, for taking it in context!

-Daniel

Unfortunately I don't think this priests case is isolated. Here is a story from the Chicago Tribune [chicagotribune.com]

The classroom is on the campus of DePaul University, the country's largest Catholic university and, it is believed, the first Catholic school to offer an undergraduate minor in queer studies. The minor became available in January.

It says the classes have been full.

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

You don't need to get so defensive...

If you read a page back, you will see that most of the criticism was about the RC church.... :rolleyes:

I don't think that anyone here is competing about which 'side' is more apostate...

We have all agreed that there is enough apostasy and sin to go around *everywhere*. It is a sign of the pagan times-- the evil one reigns, on both sides of the cultural divide, in this country and in every country, in the hearts and souls of those who are spiritually weak...

In Christ,
Alice

Alice, I am not trying to foment a �who is more apostate contest�. I am distressed that it seems a priest can from the pulpit suggest as a Lenten activity going to view a movie that I gather is a celebration of sexual deviancy. I would love for someone to post he has been censured and/or removed.

My other post was simply to say I don�t think this is isolated. The nation�s largest Catholic university now apparently offers a course of study in that form of deviancy.

That is not to cast stones, but to highlight an issue that I think people in that church should be speaking out and acting on.

Andrew

I wonder how they will explain that and try to keep their status of Catholic University.

ICXC
NIKA