www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pope approves barring gay seminarians

Thanks for the link. The USCCB's John Jay report showed that 82% of the cases were homosexual in nature.

That is why I bristle every time a USCCB flacky continues to call it "pedophilia." They know perfectly well its not pedophilia, but they fear the forces of political correctness (never reveal the truth about the homosexual subculture's obsession with minor boys!) more than they Fear the Lord.

No. It means that Rome has the wisdom and guts to proclaim that the rights of parents not to have their adolescent male children molested by homosexuals far outweighs the good that may come from the minority of those afflicted with SSAD in the priesthood who actually live a chaste life.
They are most definitely are NOT entirely to blame for the recent sexual scandals in the Church.

There were at least one in ten cases that were NOT homosexual in nature.

On the other hand, SSAD afflicted priests, bishops, etc. ARE responsible for 82 to 90% of all the recent sexual scandals in the Church.

If they bar ordination to the priesthood, from this point forward, all men afflicted with SSAD, the cases of abuse will plummet very quickly to the known historical background levels, which are far far lower than that of other professions such as teachers.

Well, for one thing, you will be living with members of a sex you are attracted to in a seminary for certain for at least 8 years, where situations occur like I mention which, when heterosexual are not an issue at all, but when homosexual, is like being around women in such a situation -- not good.

As for when ordained, some do live alone yes, but many also do live with fellow priests, which is usually considered more ideal. My own diocese has a very noted shortage of priests, yet there are many priests who still live with other priests. I know very few living on their own. With clustering of parishes, I suppose having one rectory shared between priests close by makes more financial sense than multiple residences. Even if not though, a priest would never be put in a situation where a member of the opposite sex was living in his rectory, effectively co-habitating. That is the fundamental difference. That temptation simply won't arise, but the other one very well could, which then is a problem at least for the priest with a same-sex attraction, but an even bigger problem if you happen to get two with that attraction in the same place -- and I remember reading somewhere that the percentage of homosexuals in the clergy is higher than the per capita average, meaning that is a statisically higher probability for clergy than for others.

Wow! Sounds like magic or that some of the Babas in my parish could do it too!

I'm sure that Father Groeschel would appreciate your second paragraph. ;-)

So, in your humble opinion, Personal holiness and basic common sense, along with a knowledge of the spiritual life and basic human nature is magic? Lacking? Laughable/worthy of mockery?

Glad to know what I'm dealing with here.

You've obviously never spoken with spiritual directors who have performed these duties in the past. If you had, you would not be making such a fool of yourself.

Thanks Amado! Unity in Truth!

No--I repeat, if that is the criteria to be a spiritual director AND be able to identify "disorders" in men so as to not let them pass to Orders, then I can show you a number of holy and qualified individuals.

And, in fact, my spiritual director in my college years happened to be a spiritual director at the local archdiocesan seminary, as well as a chaplain at the university that I attended, and a weekend assistant at a parish.

The background to become a competent spiritual director is not available to most Babas, to my knowledge.

Otherwise, it sounds like we might be in agreement?

Spiritual Direction [newadvent.org]

Father Anthony,

what a truly Christ-like response-reconciliation and restoration. It's one thing to follow the moral law of avoiding or shunning evil, but morality is only complete when the good is done as well. Your service to Fr Nektarios is a witness to "doing the good".

I hesitate to contribute to this thread. However since I have not read any post by someone who has actually been affected by this document I thought I would speak up.

I have SSAD and I have always wanted to be in the ministry. When I was Protestant I even attended and graduated from an Anglican seminary with the intent to be an Anglican priest. However, the Lord had other plans and that dream did not come to be.

Since I became Catholic I have been considering the priesthood or monastic life. Because I am divorced I am working on an annulment but had hoped that once that was accomplished I could persue one of these. Yet apparently now, that too is not to be.

I don't believe I owe anyone justification for my ssa. But for those who might jump to conclusions about my personal morality and spiritual condition I write the following few sentances: I dont understand why I have it and neither does anyone else. I choose, by grace, to live as faithfully to Christ and the teaching of the Church as I can. Am I chaste? I don't sleep around, I don't act out, I don't look at porn. Does that make me chaste? I don't know. Though it seems to me that chastity is not something obtained by *abstaining* from something. Its not a negative thing, its a positive. Chastity is a state of being, a way of life, a fruit of the Spirit. To this end I strive. God is judge of whether or not I have succeeded.

In my personal experience I have found most people to be understanding about ssa. I personally have not experienced bigotry or meanness though I know of some who have. But what I have found a lot of is confusion. And what really gets under my skin is someone spouting off about it, pontificating on the alleged responsibilities of the ssa sufferer or pretending to have an understanding about it. It would be nice if such people would simply limit their vocabulary about the topic to what the Catechism says unless they want to get their hands dirty with a ministry like Courage and actually help people with ssa. After they have had some experience dealing with the stress and anxiety of living with ssa then perhaps they will have something of substance to say.

What does this all have to do with the topic of this thread? Very simply that it's nice to read the posts that do not treat this document as something utterly objective but realize that it is a pastoral document intended not only to curb or remedy the sexual scandal crisis in the Church but to put those of us with SSA in a position in the church where we can be ministered TO.

I believe far more often than not, homosexuals who enter the ministry do so in a misguided attempt at self healing. They dont enter the priesthood as ravenous wolves intent on preying on the young and naive. They think they will be given the discipline to exercise self control. Sadly they miss the point of the priesthood entirely and instead become victims of their own lusts and leave wounded people in their paths wherever they go.

If I thought this document was intended as a "slam against gays" I would be very distressed and wonder what kind of future I might have as a Catholic. On the contrary, it is a document, as far as I can see, that puts the person with ssa precisely where he REALLY needs to be...under the pastoral care of a competent chaste priest...which is what we will be getting out of the seminaries now.

So, on the one hand I fell acute disappointment that I can never be a priest or religious. On the other hand it is very heartening to see the Church make such a bold move not only to preserve herself but to minister to those who need it and to go to such extremes to see that they receive the care they need.

I hope this post is not taken in any offensive way. I write it intending simply to express my thoughts. Not to jump on or criticize anyone. If any one does take offence please forgive me.

Jason a sinner

Dear Jason,

Thank you for your courageous post. I am sure that it will give all something to ponder, when looking at this issue.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Brother Jason,

I believe St Aelred of Rievaulx also shared this with you.

You are in good company!!

May God bless you and use you for His Glory - which He is, I know, already doing.

Alex

THANK YOU Jason, Thank you, sincerely.

This is probably the single best post I've ever seen in an online discussion of this issue.

You are an inspiration.

Jason- great post; thank you for your courage posting it.
Please note that nothing has suggested that homosexuals should be barred from monastic life, only the priesthood.
It would be uncharitable should the Church, having consigned ssa sufferers to a celibate life, not provide them with tried and tested ways of living it out.
I once read that Charles de Foucauld, the contemplative missionary, was suspected of homosexual acts, and this had held up his cause. I recently saw that he was to be beatified; does anyone know the details of this? I'd sort of hoped that he was found to have been guilty of these things in his youth, but had successfully overcome them after his conversion, thus providing a much needed role model for those struggling with ssa.
-Daniel