www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News These are the problems with churches!!!

I made a post to why should we congrat. Bishop Pakati for suspending Father Gera. And now that topic has been closed. Why because it critizes someone in the church. That's what's wrong now a days with the church and why we are losing younger children because we are not allowed to voice our opions. The church feels they are above the law in society and above the law of God. When bad things happen in the church the people should know and have the freedom to talk about these problems not closing topics to end it. The same people that pay to keep the church going and pay these priest salaries should be allowed to be heard when things go bad.The church is so out of touch with the people it is becoming very sad.
And why do I feel the church is losing its younger generation because I am part of that group. I'm 16 years old from PA where father Gera preached but did not practice what he preached. I am struggling along with others my age as to why go to a church that seems to be runned like the government hush hush! I will never stop beliving in God but I am leaning towards not believing in a club like organization The Catholic Church.

So I am confident that this message too will be closed and maybe my membership revoked from this board. Because the church never wants to here negative comments to make things better.

Boscoy / Haz-teen,

No one is sweeping anything under the rug and no one is denying problems that face our Church (or, indeed, that face every Church). The thread was closed because it named specific individuals and did not offer them the presumption of innocence. This priest has now been suspended by his bishop, probably pending an investigation.

Would it not be appropriate to assume that the delay in suspending this priest was to assume innocence until an initial investigation could be conducted? And that the suspension is based upon an examination of the facts rather than just accusations?

Is it not unchristian to adopt a �guilty until proven innocent� approach?

Is it not unchristian to make judgments based upon accusations without definitive knowledge?

Are we to convict our priests based upon articles published in newspapers?

If we demand due process for ourselves, are not the clergy entitled to the same due process? Or do we hold them to a higher standard than we are willing to assign to the laity?

Do you believe that a public discussion of accusations made against specific individuals is really Christian?

In Matthew 18:15 our Lord directed us to approach sinners privately and, through the Church, call them back to Christ. If we have not done this we have an obligation to refrain from gossip about specific individuals, especially if we ourselves have no proof and are not directly involved in the case.

I have noted many times that general discussions about these issues are most welcome. It is simply not appropriate, however, for Christians to gossip about accusations made against specific individuals. If someone has evidence against an individual priest he or she should immediately take it to their bishop.

Admin

Haz-teen,

Fear not - we all feel your anger at what has happened.

We can understand that you are worried and perplexed that a priest - someone you should be able to trust - has allegedly shown another, darker, side to his person.

All any of us can do is to trust in God and pray - and this we do.

But having said that - public discussion on a Forum like this is not a good idea.

I am an RC - and the young assistant Priest in our parish returned from holiday a few days ago - he had visited friends in Boston. Whilst Celebrating Mass there he said he could feel the anger of the people directed to him - a young unknown Priest - and he could hear the noisy demonstrations outside the Church.

This rattled him badly and he feels now that he has some understanding of how the events have affected people . As he said to us yesterday - we must pray, pray again and then some more.

We must pray for Peace - peace in the world and peace in the Church.

We must also pray for healing - and be assured that yesterday the prayers that had been written for that Mass were not used - we prayed for the healing of the members of the American Churches - its priests and laity.

God be with you

Dear Glaswegian friend,

Every time I was sent to a parish I was given this instruction, "you are being sent to bring healing to the congregation". I believed it the first time but learned my lesson very quickly. This "healing" meant "cover up". I'm not suggesting that is what you mean by it. Nor am I saying that healing is not needed. But healing without repentance, and purgation just won't happen. In every situation in which I served the only time healing ever took place it took place after repentance and penance.

I hope that this priest will serve out his days in repentance in a monestary and never again serve a parish. I hope this bishop will repent of his lax attitude toward such sins so that his record will be expunged of the shame it has now. There may be need for repentance in our congregations as well. I do not know one way or the other.

All I do know is that healing will not take place without repentance and "works that meet for repentance" as John the Baptist said.

Dan Lauffer

I can't help but to believe that your anger seems to be a bit misplaced. No Church hierarch closed this topic, the Admin did (for what reasons I will not attempt to discuss; that's his business).

The Church does not believe that she is above the Law of God. On the contrary, she has been established to dispense God's Law to the faithful. This doesn't invalidate believers' rights to voice their opinion; the Church can and should take them into account.

But once again, the Church press released this information to the faithful concerning Gera, she didn't shut it up and lock it away.

ChristTeen287

The "Church press"? If RCF = "The Church" then I might as well give up, because I'm going straight to Hell. They may believe they are doing some kind of service, but it's hard not to detect the glee with which they are helping to ruin people's lives. To whom are they accountable? Nobody! No matter which "side" they're on, there is nobody short of a civil court that can prevent their execution of "justice" via the Internet.

ChristTeen,

Please read my earlier post in this thread. Can you not see that discussion of unproven specific accusations against a named priest (and of our bishop for supposedly refusing to take action) is not appropriate in a public forum?

Please read Matthew 18:15-17: �If your brother should commit some wrong against you, go and point out his fault, but keep it between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. If he does not listen, summon another, so that every case may stand on the word of two or three witnesses. If he ignores them, refer it to the Church.� In a situation like this the proper approach is for two or three witnesses to approach the bishop in person and present their evidence and follow up with the bishop. If, for some reason, the bishop will not receive them or rejects evidence they know to be true they are to then approach the Metropolitan and present the evidence to him (and so forth). No one has even suggested that his was done. Instead, it appears that those making the accusations took the easy way out and ignored the commandment given by Christ. They turned to the mass media to use the force of scandal to accomplish what should have been addressed within the Church. By using the media to accomplish the work they were responsible to do they have only scandalized greater numbers of people and probably lead no one into repentance.

Admin

I would like to echo the words of the administrator about the presumption of innocence. While the photograph at the center of this controversy certainly appears real, today's run-of-the-mill software allows even a rank amateur to perform rather remarkable digital legerdemain. I can only imagine what would be possible with top notch software in the hand of a talented individual with an ax to grind. After all, would it not be the height of folly for someone to use a well-known e-mail address on a site such as those where the picture was posted, rather than use an anonymous Hotmail account?

Perhaps the allegations are true. If so, Father Gera needs our prayers.
Perhaps the allegations are false. If so, Father Gera needs our prayers.

In either case, it is time for me to heed my own advice, log off, and spend my time in a more fruitful pursuit.

-- Ed Klages

Sorry, Lemko, I'm drawing a blank. Perhaps if you explain to me what "RCF" is, I can respond accordingly.

Admin, please don't be so defensive. I specifically said that I do not wish to discuss your reasons, as they are your own. I'm not questioning their appropriateness, only saying that I'm quite sure I do not understand your reasons for removing it. That's completely different than disagreeing with your reasons; how can I agree or disagree with that which I do not understand? If anything, I was defending your right to censor what you believe needs censoring. I'm sure you made the right decision.

ChristTeen287

Sorry, RCF = the organization "Roman Catholic Faithful", who first posted the details of this situation on their public Website that supposedly prompted the bishop in question to finally act. This is an organization which, as far as I know, is no more approved by the hierarchy than are Call to Action, the Women's Ordination Conference, etc., yet they have set themselves up as the definers of Catholic "orthodoxy" and enforcers of morality.

The "Church press" (meaning the Catholic press under the direction of eparchial/diocesan bishops) is not involved in the current situation being referenced here, nor, I expect, will they be.

I would agree. Even a very quick view of their website gave as much evidence of their own misguidedness than that of this priest.

Even a non-Catholic like me thought their attacks on the Pope were uncalled for.

Axios

Even now that "RCF" has achieved what was (supposedly) their goal -- getting said bishop to "act" -- they have not removed the materials from their Website. I think that reveals their true nature & motives far more than anything any of us here might write or say.

There is a thematic that oftentimes appears in more recent RC theology and which continues a thread dating back to apostolic times. It is the notion that the Chuch is, collectively, a pilgrim on a journey to holiness and union with God.

All of us human beings are on this journey. The Church was established by Christ to provide a collective effort for those humans who have heard His message and work to support one another. I am reminded of photos and films of refugees during WWII, moving down the road to escape the war and the fighting, and when one would fall, others would reach down and raise the person up, providing support. So too, we in the Church. It's not a question of why the person stumbled and fell, it is the effort of the rest of us to raise the person up and provide support. This applies to any soul -- priestly or not, hierarchical or not. None of us has been given the grace to "not stumble and fall".

We must always be there to aid every human soul. As St. Ignatius (Loyola) prayed: "to give and not to count the cost, to fight and not to heed the wounds, to toil and not seek to rest, save that of knowing that we are doing Your will."

We must resist the impetus to be harpies; constantly picking and niggling at others' faults and failings. We must pray, and do whatever we can to both forgive and help others and to support our bishops in their efforts to lead the Church.

Blessings!

Dear Friends,

There was an interesting program on EWTN last night (you know, the people Anthony Dragani is associated with ).

It interviewed Fr. Benedict Groeschl, who is a trained psychiatrist over this whole issue.

What I found to be most fascinating is Fr. Benedict's take on the overall victimization of the Catholic priesthood and the Church as a whole over this sad matter.

When we look to "traditional" groups (there's really nothing traditional about them in the Gospel sense) as "authorities" on judging priests and the Church with the Pope, let's remember that these groups are walking lock-step with the liberal press who have an axe to grind against the Church over a number of issues.

Apart from the real instances of abuse, Fr. Benedict said that priests today are feeling depressed and they are afraid to speak to young people etc.

One priest he knows, he said, was suspended because a young teenaged boy who had just lost his father came to his office and started to cry.

The priest immediately went over to embrace the sobbing youngster who, as it turned out, was abused as a child by a family member.

The boy started to scream, the police were called in and the priest was suspended.

Fr. Benedict suggested we are living in a truly "strange society."

I agree and I would hope that those who are quick to nail the Church and her priests would realize that there is a flip side to this coin that is being DELIBERATELY ignored - that side is the many, many holy priests who suffer in their lives in the service to the members of the Body of Christ which is the Church.

One Episcopalian bishop, Fr. Benedict said, actually asked his priests to wear specifically Roman collars as an outward sign of support to RC priests.

"I've never seen or heard of such great ecumenism in my life," Fr. Benedict concluded.

God bless the Episcopalians!

Alex

" god bless the episcopalian "

father benedict is in heresy for saying this, he is not catholic at all.

the episcoplaians are in heresy, there church was founded in england in (1534) by henry the 8th.

to say tha is a slap in the face to jesus, his church, the (body) of christ.

jesus built one true church and to say that is to promote a false church order imo.

sincerely matt.