www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Eparchy of Mukachevo is now Ukrainian Greek Catholic

At the Ukrainian Greek Catholic site, the Eparchy of Mukachevo's bishops are listed as "List of Bishops of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church."

http://www.ugcc.org.ua/eng/ugcc_structure/bishops/

Has the Eparchy of Mukachevo joined the Ukrainian jurisdiction? If so, then 'why?' If not, then why the lie?

Joe

I have the sudden feeling of deja vu. :p

Please keep your hands, feet, and politics in the thread at all times. Do not attempt to leave until the thread had come to a full and complete stop.

Hold on tight, 'cuz here we go again!

Dave

Joe,
As Dave points out this has been noted before.
On the Structure and Territory page the site says:

Could use a little updating.

DJS,

By this, I presume you mean that the list of bishops to which Joe referred could use some footnoting to make clear that those of Mukachevo are not of the UGCC - please say "yes" :rolleyes:

Joe,

Be assured, there has been no change in the status of the Eparchy of Mukachevo as to the Church sui iuris of which it is a part.

Many years,

Neil

Sorry to disappoint, but no that's not what I meant. ( :rolleyes: ???) The quote from the site indicates that the church "is lead by" Bishops Ivan Semedy and Ivan Margitych. They are retired.

DJS,

Ah, good point . I got so caught up in looking to stifle the "here we go again" fear that Dave expressed, that I didn't even notice.

Many years,

Neil

It is outdated as it still lists Bishop Michael (Wiwchar) as the Adminstrator for the Eparchy of St. Nicholas. Bishop Richard has been Bishop of that Eparchy over a year (nearing two years). And Bishop Pavlo Vasylyk has reposed.

As Neil has stated, the "official" sui iuris status has not been changed. On a more practical level, they are included in the clergy directories of the UGCC, seminarians often study in L'viv for higher education, they participate in UGCC synods, they have priests in the US working in UGCC eparchies, etc.

I was all ready to dance in jubilation when I saw the topic, but then I read the thread. Silly me. :rolleyes: I must remember: better a papal tiara than a mitre (or kobluk!) on a Ukrainian head.

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Well said.

The last thing I wish to do is to speak of ethnic issues since it always opens a can of worms. But since this thread has been started and a few weeks ago I had a chance to hear a talk by and speak with both the rector and a professor at the Blessed Theodore Romzha Seminary in Uzhorod, perhaps it is appropriate to post a summary of what I learned.

On January 13, 2005 Father Taras Lovska, the rector of the Blessed Theodore Romzha Seminary in Uzhorod and Protocyncellus of the Eparchy of Mukachevo and Father John Zeyack, a priest of the Eparchy of Passaic, NJ and a professor at Romzha Seminary spoke at Epiphany of Our Lord parish in Annandale, Virginia about the life of the Ruthenian Church in the Eparchy of Mukachevo. Most of the questions I had intended to ask were actually asked by someone else during the presentation. During the social hour afterwards there was plenty of time to ask more specific questions.

I have summarized some of the issues that were discussed from my notes. Some context might be missing, but since these issues have already been discussed at length numerous times on the Forum, I will ask readers to do a search and re-read those threads. The presentation by Fathers Taras and John was not a formal one and there was no agenda.

Ethnicity - The Carpatho-Rusins do not consider themselves to be of Ukrainian ethnicity. But this is something they don�t want to argue about. When someone asks them �Are you Ukrainian?� or �Are you Russian?� they tend to answer an equivalent of �Whatever� and change the subject. They are so used to being told what they are they simply choose not to discuss it. When the Communists were in charge they were told they were Russians. Now that the Ukrainians are in charge they are told to be Ukrainian.

In 1994 the Vatican asked them if they wanted to merge with the Ukrainian GCC. They were open to the idea but Lvov/Lviv would not agree to written guarantees respecting their Rusin ethnicity and Liturgy. If they merged at that time they would have to adopt the Ukrainian usage in all things liturgical and abandon the Carpatho-Rusin usage. Because Lvov/Lviv would not respect that they were Rusins and not Ukrainians, our bishops and people rejected a merger with the UGCC and chose instead to remain independent from the UGCC. Relations with the UGCC are friendly and the Rusin bishops do participate in some meetings much like our bishops in America participate in the national bishops� conference.

Ethnic Identify / National Identity - It varies, but for the most part those Rusins over 25 consider themselves to be Rusins living in the country of Ukraine. Those under 25 are analogous to the United States, where the children want to belong to the larger group and identify more with being American then their own ethnicity. In Uzhorod, etc, the young people know they are ethnic Rusins but are beginning to put the Ukrainian nationality first. [Government business is required to be in the Ukrainian language. Government broadcasts (radio, tv, etc.) are all in Ukrainian and, in some cases, Russian. Those who speak languages other than Ukrainian are often treated as second-class citizens.] A not-exact parallel is the children and grandchildren of those Slavs who immigrated to America (they wanted to be Americans and not members of an ethnic minority).

Language - In the villages they still speak Rusin as a first language. Governmental business is required to be done in Ukrainian (at least in western Ukraine). Fr. Taras compared the differences between Rusin and Ukrainian as similar to the differences between Ukrainian and Russian, but just not as much. If you know and speak only Rusin you can understand and make yourself understood to people who speak only Ukrainian or Russian. Prior to the fall of communism, Russian was the language of the government and schools. Most people are fluent in Rusin, Ukrainian and Russian and will normally respond to you in the language you speak to them in.

Seminary - At the seminary they made a conscious decision to conduct classes in Ukrainian. This choice was made because it is the official language of the country and they want the seminarians to become proficient in Ukrainian. Fr. Taras compared it to 60 years ago here in America. Rusin was the first language but if you wanted to get on in life you needed to speak English. So classes were held in our seminaries almost exclusively in English. The reality is that, because they are a minority, the Rusin language will probably disappear in a few generations and be replaced with Ukrainian (just as Slovak has become the first language of Rusins and Ukrainians living in Slovakia and Polish has become the first language of Rusins living in Poland). It is a battle no one expects to win so they seem to be choosing not to even fight it.

Worship Language � Old Church Slavonic is the official language used in worship in 90% of the parishes. The other 10% of parishes use a mixture of OCS, Ukrainian, Slovak, Hungarian and Romanian. The official books for the Ruthenian Recension published by Rome serve as the standard for all liturgical services.

Last year they used only Old Church Slavonic in worship at the seminary. This year they alternate languages (I'm not sure if by days or weeks). The seminarians are learning all of the Divine Services in Old Church Slavonic, Ukrainian, Slovak, Romanian, Hungarian and English. Fr. Zeyack says that when they sing the Liturgy in English, the 120 voices sound like a bunch of Americans.

Relations with Orthodox Churches � Generally speaking, relations between Greek Catholics and Orthodox are decent. There are still some problems regarding ownership of church buildings confiscated from the Greek Catholics and given to the Orthodox by the Communists and that sometimes displays itself with resentments on all parts. There are also several places where church buildings are shared.

Yuschenko � Fr. Taras also told stories about the election, how the government workers were told to vote Yanukovich how Orthodox parishes received large monetary gifts from Yanukovich and endorsed him from the pulpit, how businesses in za karpodska were closed or burned for putting up posters for Yuschenko, etc.

Finances � The seminary is very poor. The cost of a semester for each student is US$120. None of the students can afford to pay their tuition. The Eparchy of Passaic is currently paying the food bill. Donations are welcome!

The Rusin people of the Carpathian Mountains are extremely poor. If you own a cow and a few chickens you are considered upper middle class. They are experiencing an exodus of people to places in Europe and elsewhere where decent paying jobs are available.

Admin,

Thanks for that very interesting summary.

Many years,

Neil

I'm probably walking wear angels fear to tread, but let me say this; I champion the idea of ethnic identity by whatever ethnic group. I know very little of the Rusin people, but I hope that things will get better for them in their homeland. If that doesn't work, I would welcome their coming to America, but I realize that would be a last resort. hey, my Native ancestors have lived in the same area for millenia, and I don't think that they should have to leave because of no other choice.
But what intrigues me is the idea of a merger of Rusin and Ukrainian GC churches, If the Holy See grants Patriarchal status to the Ukrainians, would that increase the prestige and influence of Slavonic Catholics, including Rusins, Russians, Ukrainians, Belarus, and other groups following the Slavonic Byzantine tradition? Possibly even a panSlavonic Patriarchate? could we actually have a unified body here in the States? I speak in the context of our interests here, regardless of ethnic heritage (but of ecclesiatical identity) when dealing with certain of the Latin Church when it comes to the respect we are entitled to.
Much Love,
Jonn

In the course of a most welcome report on the ethnolinguistic situation in Transcarpathia, the Administrator mentions that "Fr. Zeyack says that when [the seminarians in Uzhhorod] sing the Liturgy in English, the 120 voices sound like a bunch of Americans."
We must have hope that in time their English will improve!

Incognitus

Incognitus,

Perhaps you were hoping they would sound like a bunch of Brits? :p

Admin

Dear Jonn:

As things stand today - no. There are those of us who prefer to maintain our jurisdictional ties with Kyiv/Lviv.

Yours,

hal