www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall An awesome dream

I just had an awesome dream. It was amazing. In the dream there were people who appeared unkillable: Jesus and someone else. For some reason the other guy was an enemy of God and I have no idea what he wanted or why but he was immortal and he had nothing but hate for God and He and Jesus got into a major fight. A real FIGHT. This was brutal with Christ kicking back every bit as hard as he was being hit and blow for blow you could see the anger of this guy towards Our Lord. He was full of fury. Eventually after a long round of fighting Jesus let him win and he shot Christ in the chest a few times and all the while there was intense dialogue going on--seemed to me Jesus fought with him solely to speak with him. The man was bemoaning the absence of Christ when he needed Him and Christ replied that He would let him win in that case (hence the shooting). Yet, even after winning the man was despondent and simply replied 'what does it matter when this will last eternity' and I cant remember what Jesus said when He woke up seconds later (darn!) I think it was something like 'what does it matter when I died for you?' Then they got into another argument at which point the man was crying angrily and saying Christ hadnt felt His pain--which, of course, is wrong--but Jesus didnt get into a soteriological debate with the guy. He just said: you havent felt my love and hugged him causing the guy to cry.

At the end there was a dialogue. Jesus was standing in a room looking through a window and someone came in. From his shadow you could see it was Satan. Jesus said to him 'you know you could come home' and Satan replied with a smirk 'and you know I dont want to...I only want to destroy them'. Jesus didnt turn to look at him thereafter, he just said 'hmm' and the devil exited the room leaving Our Lord alone. It was as if Satan was reminding him that for everyone Jesus saved the devil would try twice as hard to destroy those He had not. Thats how it ended.

WOW Myles!

So what did Christ look like to you, Myles? Arian-faced or typically Middle Eastern?

Interesting dream, for sure. Any guesses as to whom the "guy" might be?

Logos Teen

Dear Myles,

You've been reading Revelation too much!

Alex

This dream is a good illustration of the spiritual warfare that takes place in the human heart.

Hehe, no Alex I havent read the book of Apocalypse for sometime now but maybe I should...? :p

Logos Teen I dont think it matters that much what I saw. According to the classical Latin qualification of a vision there are three types corporeal, imaginative and intellectual. The first is the Bernadette type of thing where you actually see something (often confirmed by some miraculous phenomena), the second is where you see something inwardly which is not external e.g. St Joseph's dream and the third is brought about in what we call a state of rapture [newadvent.org] .

The point I'm trying to get across is that what I have seen--and I am skeptical that this dream falls under the criteria of an 'imaginitive vision'--is how my mind factors through events. If it was the Lord that I saw then I cannot claim to have seen Him as He is only as He appeared to me because I was not enraptured at the time. I have not reached the level of sanctity and purification neccessary, and here I paraphrase St Teresa of Avila, to see not with earthly eyes but with the eyes of the soul. Hence the image I saw can only be described in those terms: the image I saw.

Only those who recieve the grace of rapture can see God as He is and none of the great mystics who have had such an experience have been able to write aptly about it. St Thomas Aquinas as you probably know from my constant citations of the event ( :p ) didnt even bother trying. He just gave up writing theology all together. Moreover, all the saints who have attempted to write down what occurs at the highest levels of mystical experience have had their work often labelled as 'unintelligeable'.

The very fact that I can tell you how Our Lord looked to me tells us both that my dream at the very best would qualify as an imaginitive vision (though as I said, I reckon it was just a dream). Accordingly, what I may or may not have seen isn't really relevant to your question because I didnt see Him as He is but only as much as my mind was able to percieve.

PS) I think John's right

Dear Myles,

I think your dream has to do with your vocation in life.

Part of you wants to dedicate you to the Priesthood which would mean celibacy (unless you joined the growing ranks of Byzantine converts! ).

Another part of you wants to get married (thus the image of the demon that can do no wrong! ).

This is why you are on the horns of a dilemma . . .

At least I think so . . .

Have you met any interesting females lately?

Alex

Your interpretation of my dream is most interesting Alexios (deliberate 'err'). I dont know how close to the truth it is though, it seems to reflect a tendency I've noticed in you since you got back: recruitment drive. :p

I think John's interpretation of the dream is closer to reality though because of things that have been going on in my personal life lately. I'm a little out of puff, indeed I've been so stressed that I've become ill--my kidneys may be damaged I am awaiting test results--my doctor has traced the injury to stress which he says was evident in my physical condition when he treated me three months ago for something else. I've had a lot on my mind...

Not the least of which have been spiritual matters. I will tell you something, which I dont feel all that comfy telling in public. Up until now I've only told Fr Anthony on byzcath. Not too long ago at Mass I recieved the Blessed Sacrament and, to my joy, at that point I saw light behind my eyes. Before my eyes was the church, same surroundings, same people, but behind my eyes was a pure light a crystal light beautiful and brilliant. It should've have been overwhelming for its intesity but it wasn't, it was calming, soothing and warm. Whenever I tried to grab hold of it and concentrate on it, it vanished, and when I let myself go it returned. It was just what the doctor ordered.

But as I said I had to let myself go to see it. Various thoughts, cares, concerns flooded back into my mind soon after. Troubles, temptations, the whole 9 yards. Before too long I was beset by vicious doubts and fears and all manner of anxities and sin seemed always lurking. My mind seemed to drown so deeply in the waters of the world that it became impossible to come up above the waves for a gasp of spiritual air. My resitence, my peace of mind was eroded by my inner turmoil and before too long I was away.

It wasn't the first time either. This is a cycle for me. There are moments, flashes, things I see...when I think of the things I have seen. Yet it seems that everytime I get closer something rushes in to drag me further away. I cant step forward without something throwing me twice the distance back. It makes me sigh to think of and the problem is I think too much.

Maybe it comes with the territory but my mind never seems to sleep, never seems to stop working, and like a sponge it absorbs every little worry, every little issue and mulls them over constantly never breaking for a pause until it finally the engine gives out and smoke obscures all vision.

It breaks my heart sometimes, a lot of the time, and I want it to stop. I want to stop the cycle, I want to just be at peace, I just want Him to be with me. Yet, sometimes, a lot of the time, it feels like He's not and though I know logically that its an illusion to my senses thats little consolation.

Yet, my dream, if anything, has taught me that I'm just going to have to trust Him and deal with it and not let the devil in. His trickery and deception leave me sometimes feeling frustrated, angry and alone and I wish really and truly I want Jesus to come and help me. I have to understand that this is Satan's plan. To get me feeling like Jesus has turned away from me so that I will turn from Him, to fill my head with his venom so that there will be no space for God. I guess if I were to interpret it I'd say that Jesus was saying He's always with me and not to let myself get pulled away from that reality by other things no matter what.

And ya know. Now that I can see the devil's conspiracy. I am a lot happier and my eyes can see again

I must beg to differ with you, Myles, because I was simply curious as to see what your own mind's formulation of Christ's features would be.

Meaning no offense (and knowing you won't take any), I didn't consider your dream, albeit fascinating, to be anything other than a dream.

And so that's why I was interested about how you thought Jesus looked like, even subconsciously (as your dream would probably illustrate this).

Logos Teen

In that case Teen: Jewish features, brown hair shoulder length, deep penetrating brown eyes, relatively tanned skin.