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POLL: Where are people religiously at this forum ?
For each question, pick the one option that is closest to your view.
-- John
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Dear John, This is a GREAT poll. Thanks for creating it. I hope that alot of people will answer it--it will be interesting to see the final results. Regards, Alice 
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Harmon,
Overall you have constructed a very good poll; and that's not easy to do with so many little nuances.
If I may, my one small issue with the poll is the question dealing with divorce.
Divorce, in itself, perhaps is sometimes necessary and in the best interest of the spouses, if we're talking a civil divorce. But a marriage, according to Catholic teaching, can never be dissolved except by the death of a spouse. As I imagined you were probably asking whether a marriage can be dissolved, I answered "always wrong," since it's not possible anyway. If you meant a civil divorce in the eyes of the state or government, then I would've answered differently.
Logos Teen
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Wow great questions! Thanks for posting this poll!
Jason
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Greetings and Blessings, John, Sunday 15 October 2006
I took the poll and I find several things very interesting from these first 9 postings...being that it had (with my answers) mostly, "baptized Roman Catholics" (so far) who had contributed an answer!
There were several answers in the poll that proved the importance of "spirituality", thus far, of those who cherish their Catholic faith. Also, the importance of those values we hold so dear, the protection of (child birth) human life as well as the preservation of the unity in the Sacrament of Marriage between a man and a woman!
We, as "Roman Catholics" are not aware with how the "Eastern Church" treats divorce. And, by the previous response/comments this knowledge prevails. As a Roman Catholic, who is continually searching within my heart for a much stronger faith, see within the East, some hope and foundation! And, it is so unfortunate and sad that "we" as Roman Catholics have been deprived of being taught about the richness and traditions of our TRUE Church of the East! I have personally experienced this beautiful Liturgy many times and have visited Eastern Churches, Orthodox and Byzantine. And, I continue to learn like a sponge!
Thank you again, John, for putting together such a wonderful demographic of our (joined) Catholic faith as well as the representation with how the role of the Church plays in each of our lives! God Love You for that!
...From someone who is a Roman Catholic,
but has a devout Eastern heart!
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oblate of St. Benedict
"FOLLOWING THE MASTER"
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John: Good poll, although on a couple questions I believe there may be other possibilities. Question 10 immediately comes to mind. While I believe that the Apostolic Churches will somehow find a way together by the Holy Spirit, I don't think it's realistic to try to turn the clock back 1000 years because that still leaves a lot of problems unresolved, such as the plight of the people who have migrated and taken their liturgical and ecclesial traditions with them. I think an alternate position in that area might read something like "the Orthodox and Catholic Churches will find unity by understanding their developments over the last 1000 years and resolving those things which are essential and allowing for legitimate diversity where they are of lesser importance." The whole idea of turning the clock back is one that assumes that one means just before 1054. But what about the fact that things weren't static during that first 1000 years. There are some who might like to return to the way things were before we became legal in the Empire--pre-Constantine. Some of our Oriental Orthodox brethren who suffered at the hands of the Byzantine Empire and the state Church might like to put that on the table. Somehow we've got to find a way to live together and rediscover what truly being in communion is all about--and that means accepting that the person next to you may have warts or an unpleasant odor about him. Similarly we've got lots of different people in our different parishes in the Churches as they now stand. And I doubt that anyone can claim absolute uniformity in his particular Church. So extending that, how can we expect that we will come to some point where we will eliminate all in us that the other finds unacceptable? I guess the question becomes what are we willing to do to fulfill the Lord's prayer "that all may be one"? I'd even posit that the biggest task will be to find a way to silence the bigots that we've all got now in our own Churches.  :rolleyes: I mean thta ones who demand that anyone coming into communion with our Church has to grovel and admit that he was before a Christless heretic. But good poll and thanks for posting it. In Christ, BOB
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Greetings and Blessings!
As I am watching this poll unfold (now at 19 answers!), I find the last question, "The future of the Eastern Catholic Churches out side their homelands is:" the most intriguing! Bigger and better, holding their own, shrinking and dying out all seem to try to gain the "finish line." And, those who say "I don't know" really haven't looked within to see the change(s) that is happening within the Church (East and West) today to cause this effect.
Always in the Spirit of the Lord....
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Oblate of St. Benedict
"FOLLOWING THE MASTER"
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Thank you, all, for the kind words. I hope more people vote in the poll. There are some surprises in the responses...
Bob, you're right. But I couldn't figure out a way to what your whole post said in a few words that fit in the blank. So, I made the option for 'the way things were 1000 years ago' -- figuring that everyone would know what I was getting at.
-- John
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Greetings and Blessings, John,
One thing that this poll does is to examine how well founded the knowledge is of our (joined) Catholic faith. And, the representation of how we value our hallowed Sacraments! I know that in the Roman Church there is a "disparity" as I'll call it, of the "true" substance of the Holy Eucharist!.. and, not a symbol as many believe! Yes, there are changes occurring, some good and some "not so good" and unfortunately, society (or Satan) tends to get their quota! This all proves out just how strong each of our faith truly is!!
It would be beautiful if all of us here could worship together!!
God Love You!
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Oblate of St. Benedict
"FOLLOWING THE MASTER"
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Good questions. Thanks for posting this poll! However, I had a few qualms with the way some of the answers were worded and put "I don't know" as a result. There's one that I disagree with particularly. The Eastern Catholic Churches (Byzantine, Melkite, etc.) are
a. a means to unity between the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches
b. an obstacle to unity between the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches
c. an historical anachronism
d. a stepping stone to the Orthodox Church
e. an escape from liberalism in the Roman Catholic Church
f. just my spiritual home
g. not sure / seeking to which I answer: "Patriarchates, Major Archeparchies and Eparchies of the Church of the Byzantine tradition who have chosen to be in communion with Rome". We do not exist because we are useful in the cause of "reunion" even if it's a subject of considerable interest to us. We exist because we are real Churches. Best, Markos
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 gtJC!! nice one  toodles & God bless, sUSAn
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I think the last question is most interesting right now. All the others have clear favorites (with several options at 0-2 people and all the rest voting between one or two of the choices), but the last one has a wide spread.
The future of the Eastern Catholic Churches outside their homelands is
bigger and better 20% (7)
holding their own 17% (6)
shrinking 17% (6)
dying out 14% (5)
I don�t know. 23% (8)
I don�t care; it�s my spiritual home, and I�m sticking with it. 9% (3)
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We sure need to pray more! The number of immoral answers regarding abortion, etc. are astounding!
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What is your main goal at this forum ?
Choose 1
communicating with other people interested in Eastern / Byzantine Christianity 54% (21)
learning more about Eastern / Byzantine Christianity 41% (16)
exploring the possibility of converting to another religion 0% (0)
helping others to convert to your religion 0% (0)
a safe place to debate / discuss Roman Catholic Christianity 0% (0)
puffing up your own ego / tearing down othersďż˝ egos 3% (1)
just curious 3% (1)
not sure / seeking 0% (0)
What do you think is the main goal of most others at this forum ?
Choose 1
communicating with other people interested in Eastern / Byzantine Christianity 72% (28)
learning more about Eastern / Byzantine Christianity 18% (7)
exploring the possibility of converting to another religion 0% (0)
helping others to convert to your religion 0% (0)
a safe place to debate / discuss Roman Catholic Christianity 0% (0)
puffing up their own egos / tearing down othersďż˝ egos 5% (2)
just curious 0% (0)
not sure / seeking 5% (2) So, there is at least ONE poster who admits their goal on the forum is to puff up his own ego!  But TWO respondents feel the main goal of the forum is for some to puff up their egos!Hmmmm...  Overall, this is perhaps one of the best polls on the forum. Steve
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Greetings and Blessings,
The one area that took me by surprise within this result POLL are the first two questions (at 40 responses):
1) WHAT IS YOUR RELIGION, OFFICIALLY, RIGHT NOW?"
Byzantine Catholic answered: 38%
2) WHAT WAS YOUR RELIGION, OFFICIALLY, 5 YEARS AGO?
Roman Catholic answered: 41%
Now, that clearly shows that there are real changes happening within our (joined) Catholic Church!
Blessings of the Lord to you!
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oblate of St. Benedict
"FOLLOWING THE MASTER"
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John, my brother and friend,
Very nicely done and the most responses that I have ever seen to a poll on this site within such a short time frame.
Not necessarily the most meaningful but, to my mind, the most fascinating result, on a quick glance:
RC now - 11
RC 5 yrs ago - 16
RC 5 yrs hence - 3
My only complaint - using "Byzantine" rather than "Ruthenian" offends my traditionalist nature and my sense that the Carpatho-Rusyns need to assert their pride in their origins, versus co-opting a generic descriptor that, in truth, they share with others. End of speech-making.
The surprise to me is actually a sidelight - that our Ukrainian brethren are so little represented here compared to a few years ago.
Many years,
Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Neil,
That is fascinating, but at the same time, I would think, somewhat expected since many on this board come to learn things about Byzantine Catholicism in particular and Byzantine Christianity in general, so movement from Roman Catholicism eastward would be expected/
Not for me, though! I'm 33.3% of the "RC five years hence."
I suspect if you visisted Angelqueen Forum, a traditional Catholic forum of which I am also a member, one would see the opposite trend. Judging personally from the contacts I have there, I'm pretty sure it'd be something like that.
Logos Teen
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Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos:
That is fascinating, but at the same time, I would think, somewhat expected since many on this board come to learn things about Byzantine Catholicism in particular and Byzantine Christianity in general, so movement from Roman Catholicism eastward would be expected. Garrett, I agree with you and note that, as I recollect (I'm feeling too lazy right now to go look it up) our past polls here that included queries about origin have always reflected somewhat similar results (lots of ECs and EOs who are not such from cradle, but originated in the Latin Church) but these numbers define it within a timespan (which I don't think others have done) and a short one at that and demonstrate percentages that are surprisingly high to my mind - of those responding who were Latins 5 years ago, 68.75% are still, but only 18.75% of those who were Latins 5 years ago will still be such by 5 years hence. It may, and likely is, as you suggest, only an expected artifact of the environment in which the poll was conducted but, to my sleep-clouded mind of the moment, it is still rather remarkable - especially viewed in contrast to the EC and EO numbers: EC now 20 EC 5 yrs ago 12 EC 5 yrs hence 22 (83% increase in 10 yrs) EO now 7 EO 5 yrs ago 5 EO 5 yrs hence 9 (80% increase in 10 yrs) RC now 11 RC 5 yrs ago 16 RC 5 yrs hence 3 Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Neil,
Thank you, sir, for the kind words and wishes !
Steve,
I noticed that too: the one honest person who admitted to puffing up his/her ego as the main reason for coming to this forum, LOL.
Thanks, all, for taking the poll and for your kind comments !
-- John
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Interesting Data at 44 Responses to the Poll: a lot of people here are moving religiously to the East.
Specifically, a lot of people are moving from Western forms of Christianity (especially Roman Catholicism) to Eastern forms of Christianity (the Eastern Catholic Churches and the Eastern Orthodox Churches). AND, a lot of people here are in the midst of exploring and converting to Eastern forms of Christianity.
In short, this forum is not just a place to converse and to learn. It is also a kind of ministry to people who are religiously seeking.
If you haven't taken the poll yet, please do so; your voice matters ! (If you haven't yet, please make a profile: so you can see the poll results for yourself, and so you can participate and take the poll.)
-- John
Roman Catholic
5 years ago -- 17
now -- 12
5 years in the future -- 4
Eastern Catholic
(including "Byzantine", Melkite, UGCC, etc.)
5 years ago -- 13
now -- 21
5 years in the future -- 23
Eastern Orthodox
(including GO, RO, AO, OCA, etc.)
5 years ago -- 6
now -- 9
5 years in the future -- 11
Other Christian
5 years ago -- 6
now -- 1
5 years in the future -- 1
Non-Christian
5 years ago -- 2
now -- 1
5 years in the future -- 1
Not Sure / Seekers
5 years ago -- 0
now -- 0
5 years in the future -- 4
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What I find the most interesting is that while just 28 pct of those who responded are Roman Catholics (expected to drop to just 11 pct in 5 years) a rather large (I thought) pct, 43 pct still reject the Eastern view of the Pope as the first among equals in favor of Papal Infallibility. And that's with just one Ukrainian Rite Catholic (what's up with that ?) voting.
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Many of the possible answers seem too canned.
I remember once my eparchy took a survey like this and asked what ethnic background one belonged to. One of the choices was "Carpatho Russian." Sorry, but many of the Slovak Greek Catholics hated/hate anything "Russian". So they picked Slovak or something close. One could not pick Ruthenian or Rusyn (herumph! after all those years of Ruthenian customs being promoted ...) because it was identified as being "Russian."
"Byzantine" includes a number of churches.
Joe
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Greetings and Blessings, John,
I was the one who identified the RC and BC relationships within your POLL.
Yes, this "forum" is a learning of the Eastern spirituality! I realize that I am a "new-be" on this forum, but I have (as a RC) been studying the Eastern Church for many years and I DO see change with both "lungs" of the Catholic Church. Your demographic POLL readily identifies a "ministry" as you so describe!
God Love YOU for your efforts and thought here!!
...from a Roman Catholic who has a deep LOVE for the Eastern Church within his heart!
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oblate of St. Benedict
"FOLLOWING THE MASTER"
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Thank you, all, for your corrections and comments.
Does anyone have any suggestions for other questions that you would like to see, in order to get a sense of where people are religiously at this forum ?
-- John
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New question suggestion: What was your main goal when you originally came here?
I'm curious how people's original intents compare to their eventual ones. I am curious if the board has more of an effect shaping the posters or if the posters have more of an effect shaping the board, and to what degree that effect is felt.
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Given this board's sometimes heavy handed moderation of topics, (Editing of posts, thus changing the original poster's point of view; or altogether delting posts when inconvenient opinions interfere), coupled with some very strong minded posters, I would say the board attempts to shape the posters, IMHO.
Good subject for a new poll.
Steve
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Originally posted by Steve Petach:
Given this board's sometimes heavy handed moderation of topics, (Editing of posts, thus changing the original poster's point of view; or altogether delting posts when inconvenient opinions interfere), coupled with some very strong minded posters, I would say the board attempts to shape the posters, IMHO.
Good subject for a new poll.
Steve I have not found the moderation here to be heavy handed at all. Quite the contrary, I believe the moderators bite their lips quite a bit. I know that they tolerate quite a bit more than I know I would. Try some of the other Forums, such as the Indiana List or the Euphrosynos Cafe. Opposing viewpoints are booted so fast that no one is even aware of the posters existence. It has been my experience that those who bemoan moderation the loudest are those that find overwhelming opinion to be against them, and thus the moderators become an escape mechanism. Just my opinion. Alexandr
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Originally posted by Steve Petach:
Given this board's sometimes heavy handed moderation of topics, (Editing of posts, thus changing the original poster's point of view; or altogether delting posts when inconvenient opinions interfere), coupled with some very strong minded posters, I would say the board attempts to shape the posters, IMHO. Steve, Are you trying to test your theory?
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Greetings and Blessings! As John stated above: "Interesting Data at 44 Responses to the Poll: a lot of people here are moving religiously to the East.
Specifically, a lot of people are moving from Western forms of Christianity (especially Roman Catholicism) to Eastern forms of Christianity (the Eastern Catholic Churches and the Eastern Orthodox Churches). AND, a lot of people here are in the midst of exploring and converting to Eastern forms of Christianity.
In short, this forum is not just a place to converse and to learn. It is also a kind of ministry to people who are religiously seeking." This is so true as I have seen...the negative remarks pushing the Moderator to eliminate a course of thought should not happen here, if the thought was the way of "charity, learning and understanding." True, there is a course of different opinions...as the POLL clearly shows! But, WE ALL share the same faith! We are all (regardless of ethnic backgrounds) true to our Catholic faith...both East and West, again as the POLL also shows! This demographic POLL should be shared within the entire Byzantine Forum community! I don't know how this could take place, but, somehow, this is a very important tool that "everyone" on this forum should see and participate in! I ask the Moderator...can this happen somehow? Blessings of the Lord to you... From a Roman Catholic with a deep LOVE of the East within his heart!
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Oblate of St. Benedict
"FOLLOWING THE MASTER"
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<bump> Take the poll if you haven't yet !
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Greetings and Blessings, John,
Yes! I was one of the first who took the POLL!
This POLL really interests me...and I have (in the past) have done detailed research (in this style) and have evaluated those findings and wrote a summary paper of those same findings!
You have done well with this...and I would like to see this developed further...as I had suggested above.
Our Lord's Blessings Always to You!
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Oblate of St. Benedict
"FOLLOWING THE MASTER"
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Originally posted by Wondering: Steve,
Are you trying to test your theory? Theory has already been tested. I'll leave it at that and just stay away from the contention of the board for a while. Steve
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Given this board's sometimes heavy handed moderation of topics, (Editing of posts, thus changing the original poster's point of view; or altogether delting posts when inconvenient opinions interfere), coupled with some very strong minded posters, I would say the board attempts to shape the posters, IMHO.
Good subject for a new poll.
Steve Hi Steve, I couldn't disagree with you more. I think the moderators here are great, and I think the people here usually show remarkable charity and grace in their discussions. I have been to other forums, where these characteristics are not the case. Everyone, But, as for a new poll, I am working on a revision of the one I posted. It would include the corrections and suggestions that people have made plus some extra questions that occurred to me since posting the original. -- John
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sometimes, we go off the deep end at times as far as rhetoric is concerned but I must say coming from a different political perspective from the majority, that the moderators have been very good at giving alternative voices the freedom to present another case and that is a good thing!
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Two main results from the poll at 68 votes. (1) Many people here --perhaps 45% --are Westerners looking East. (2) Most people tend to be conservative theologically and morally.
About the first point:
-- 45% are coming to this website in order to learn about Eastern / Byzantine Christianity (41% to learn, 4% "just curious").
This is significant because of high percentage of converts here. Many people at this website have already changed their religion; many others are anticipating changing their religion; and most of them changed to Eastern Christianity from Western Christianity.
For example:
-- 15% reported that they were "other Christians" five years ago; only 3% are "other Christians" today.
-- 35% reported being Roman Catholic five years ago; 28% are Roman Catholic now; only 12% anticipate being Roman Catholic five years from now.
-- The numbers for Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are correspondingly up. The former "others" and Roman Catholics are, generally, becoming Eastern Christian. Most become Eastern Catholic. However, a smaller but still significant number of people are becoming Eastern Orthodox.
In short, a lot of the people here are Western Christians who became or are thinking of becoming Eastern Christians.
(Interestingly: we don't have much data about people leaving the Eastern Christian Churches. Presumably, people who left Eastern Christianity don't come to this website and don�t, therefore, take this poll. Still, it would be very interesting to know about former Eastern Christians, why they left, and where they went to.)
About the second point:
Also, most people here are conservative theologically and morally .
Theologically, most (over 95%) believe in conservative theology about the Trinity, Jesus Christ, the Church and the Eucharist. However, the respondents are evenly divided about the filioque.
Morally, a smaller but still significant majority (over 75%) have conservative views about abortion and sexual activity. (A small but noteworthy number have moderate moral views on these issues.) However, the majority of respondents (69%) think that divorce is an acceptable necessity when there is no hope for a marriage.
In sum, this website is appealing not only to conservative Eastern Christians; it is also appealing to conservative Western Christians who are looking East.
-- John
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Greetings and Blessings, John..
I could not have expressed it any better!
Your analysis was right on the mark!
As I said earlier, I sincerely believe this POLL should appear on the "entire" Forum! Then, at least you would then get an excellent demographic of the entire Byzantine Forum. And, this important information could assist Byzantine and Orthodox parishes as well...showing the trend from the West!
Also, as I understand the word "convert" is usually describing someone converting to another faith of belief! Moving from Roman Catholic to Byzantine/Orthodox Catholic or reverse is not a conversion... as we all have received the "same" Sacraments and are recognized within all Catholic faiths. Also, we (Roman/Byzantine/Orthodox) have the same Church roots from the Apostles and our priests and bishops have a true linage from the beginning. Based on this thought, I cannot use the word "convert." Our only differences would be our "traditions and cultures" not the importance of our valid 7 Sacraments.
May the Lord Always Bless YOU..
In Jesus Christ, Our Lord!
....Ignatius
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Oblate of St. Benedict
"FOLLOWING THE MASTER"
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Just attempted, unsuccessfully, to "vote" in the poll. The problem is that several of the questions are too restrictive and I have an aversion for Procrustean beds.
My religion, for example, is "Greek-Catholic", but that choice in not permitted.
Fr. Serge
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Just attempted, unsuccessfully, to "vote" in the poll. The problem is that several of the questions are too restrictive and I have an aversion for Procrustean beds.
My religion, for example, is "Greek-Catholic", but that choice in not permitted.
Fr. Serge Fr. Serge, You could have selected "other Catholic", perhaps ? It would be interesting to have your input on the rest of the questions. But, I am going to post a longer version of the poll soon, so you can wait till I post that. Either way, I hope you aren't too disappointed to participate, and I thank you for giving it a try. -- John
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Originally posted by Joe T:
Many of the possible answers seem too canned.
I remember once my eparchy took a survey like this and asked what ethnic background one belonged to. One of the choices was "Carpatho Russian." Sorry, but many of the Slovak Greek Catholics hated/hate anything "Russian". So they picked Slovak or something close. One could not pick Ruthenian or Rusyn (herumph! after all those years of Ruthenian customs being promoted ...) because it was identified as being "Russian."
"Byzantine" includes a number of churches.
Joe Joe, Aside from the use of the word "Byzantine" (which I understand I used too broadly), what other improvements would you suggest ? I am preparing a revised and longer version of the poll, and I would like to know your comments. -- John
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Greetings and Blessings, John
It is interesting that you are doing another POLL, but with more detailed questions....
Are you going to announce this new POLL on all the Byzantine Forum main topic threads?
Everyone on the Byzantine Forum should take part with this to make it a "true" demographic representation...I truly hope you think of this, as it would have much more meaning.
God Love YOU for your ministry!
In Jesus Our Lord,
Blessings...
...Ignatius
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Oblate of St. Benedict
"FOLLOWING THE MASTER"
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IgnatiusB,
Thank you for your kind sentiments.
I'll post the new poll as a new thread under this sub-forum ("Town Hall"). That is because cross-posting isd not allowed at this forum.
The new poll will ask for more demographic information (to get a sense of who we are), more questions to measure praxis and moral opinion and theological opinion, and a few more questions about Eastern Catholicism.
If you or anyone else has suggestions for the new poll, please let me know. I have taken into consideration the suggestions that have already been posted, by pm or in public. Thanks to all who have responded.
Be well,
-- John
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Just a note on this post John- Originally posted by harmon3110:
Also, most people here are conservative theologically and morally. I'd generally agree with this, in terms of political orientation. However, not everyone here is either republican or an ardent fan of the "conservative movement", although many (I'd say the majority) are from my non-poll impressions.
Theologically, most (over 95%) believe in conservative theology about the Trinity, Jesus Christ, the Church and the Eucharist. However, the respondents are evenly divided about the filioque.
Morally, a smaller but still significant majority (over 75%) have conservative views about abortion and sexual activity. (A small but noteworthy number have moderate moral views on these issues.) However, the majority of respondents (69%) think that divorce is an acceptable necessity when there is no hope for a marriage.
I don't think it's best to characterize the positions on most of the questions you asked as "liberal" or "conservative". On one's views of the proper stance on abortion, marriage, and sexual activity, in a Catholic (or Orthodox) standard there is really only one view: orthdoxy or heterodoxy. That most Catholics/Orthodox who follow their Church's teaching on these matters seem "conservative" on this should not be surprising, and may skew one's impression towards a more conservative board than may exist.
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