www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall What to do when attacked elsewhere

Dear Friends,

I am apparently being attacked on another chat forum - I don't care to join it to defend myself, by the way.

People are sending me e-mails to alert me to this (I wish you wonderful people would stop as I don't care to know!).

One of the people who are apparently doing this is a poster here and I've contacted that person via pm to ask them to write me and tell me what the problem is so that we can resolve it peacefully and without speaking behind one another's backs (in this case, my own alone).

Have I fulfilled my Christian duty here? What would you do in such a case?

(This is the old accusation against me that I'm pretending to be Orthodox because I participate on an Orthodox site.)

What is the view of our Orthodox Christians here? Does this participation by me merit condemnation?

Alex

I would have several reactions to such abuse - but most of them would attract the unfavorable attentions of the Moderators.

One possibility is to tell the offending parties that you are firmly committed to the defense of the Old Rite and that mere Nikonians are beneath your attention.

Incognitus

Daar Incognitus,

You know you are wasted on such forums as this! They need you in the department of public relations at the Vatican!

I'm being attacked for "pretending to be Orthodox" on "Ukrainian Orthodoxy."

There is a poster on this Forum who has referred to me as a "uniate" et al. and I invite him to pm me to discuss this.

I really have a problem with talking about people in places where they are not around to defend themselves.

I'm happy you agree, Incognitus!

Perhaps you are right and this is something that is a "Nikonian thing"

Spasi Khristos!

Alex

You should be careful. Pretending to be Orthodox comes with stiff fines and/or the possibility of jail time in several states and provinces. Normally though you can get away with just doing community service if you're a first time pretender/offender.

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

"Pretending to be Orthodox" is just the point. My friend Alex IS "Orthodox" and doesn't need to pretend!

Just who is, and who is not, "Orthodox" is a great sport on many "Orthodox" forums. More "Orthodox than thou" is a common trial. It is all a variant on the "My Dad is stronger than your Dad" theme. Other examples are: "My calendar is older than your calendar" or "My praxis is stricter than your praxis" or "My schism is more recent than your schism" etc. etc. etc.

My advice to my friend Alex is not to pay attention, rather, "turn the other cheek" and remember.... "they persecuted the prophets before you."

Of course, I mean no dis-respect to our Orthodox friends, but that kind of 'insecurity', though common, is not really Orthodox.

Nick

Don't worry Alex; I have heard people say the Ecumenical Patriarch is "not really Orthodox".

Dear Friends,

Just a note to say you guys are great and you always know what to say when one needs to hear it.

Thank you and bowing low before you in spirit,

Alex

Nicholas, my post was really in jest, though it appears not particularly funny. In my own head I had an image of men in orange vests with fake beards and home made komoboskini�s picking up trash by the side of the road to serve out their sentences after being caught for �pretending to be Orthodox�. So I derived some humor out of it to take my mind off work.

Internet forums are great for these types of conversations. I�m sure there are Catholic boards somewhere with conversations about who is a cafeteria Catholic, who takes the authority of the Pope more seriously, who is more strenuous in their devotions, etc. In essence who is really Catholic and who isn�t, or who is more Catholic than someone else. It�s just a guess, but I wouldn�t be surprised if it was true. I would guess there are Protestant conversation areas with such similar conversations too.

BTW, in Merriam-Webster it says under �Eastern Orthodox�

consisting of the Eastern churches that form a loose federation according primacy of honor to the patriarch of Constantinople and adhering to the decisions of the first seven ecumenical councils and to the Byzantine rite

Which seems like a pretty good baseline for understanding what saying �I�m Orthodox� means. It means one is a member of one of the autonomous or autocephalous Orthodox churches. I grant you there are definitions of Orthodox which don�t fit this mold, but I think most people would see being Orthodox in those terms.

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

I agree, and your humor was very appropriate! It is a very healthy way of dealing with internet discourtesy. In our own way, we are both trying to encourage our friend Alex.

Nick

As we all know, there is no organized religious judicatory on the face of the earth which one could join in the confident expectation that membership in such a body will prevent others from alleging that one is not Orthodox. Since this is incurable, other than by divine intervention, we mere mortals do well to ignore it. If we look after our own Orthodoxy, we shall have enough to keep us busy.

Incognitus

Alex - you could run circles around those lightweights calling you a "pretender".

Your Old Rite friend in Khristos!
FDD

Dear Alex, Diak said:

"Alex - you could run circles around those lightweights calling you a "pretender"."

I say:

I tend to agree with him.

Actually, the Orthodox would be 'blessed' to have someone as enlightened, talented and as brilliant as you are. What a pity though! It is to our loss.

Oops! I'm giving you a swollen head.

Zenovia

Dear Alex,

If it makes you feel any better, I have been accused by my dear fundie brothers on the internet of not only NOT being Orthodox, but of being an 'enemy' of Orthodoxy?!?!?!?! :p

(Remember poster 'Photius' and 'Nektarios'...they were two of my greatest 'fans')! LOL! :rolleyes:

Fondly,
Alice

Reply #1 As the young people say, "that's fo' shizzle!"

Reply #2 I can show you where they are!

Reply #3 Sometimes there are those who claim to be more Catholic than the Pope!

Dr. Alex,

I too was confused about your appearance on the Ukrainian Orthodoxy website. Using my powers of deduction I guess you were hired to do a job and that's why you contribute to the site. I also imagine that you have relatives who are Orthodox, as many Catholics on this forum do, and you do them service by posting on said website.

I was actually going to PM you about this. But attacking someone behind his back is rude and un-gentlemanly. Challenge him to a duel!

If you do choose pistols at dawn, try to aim like our former VP Burr and not like our current VP Cheney!

Remind such people that the worst sinner of all exists but is not you, on the internet he goes by Incogneat3's.

Dear Dr Eric,

Yes indeed - I think I've come to learn to take seriously the whole idea of "Orthodox in communion with Rome."

For me, it truly does mean to be as "Orthodox" as Orthodox Christians today are.

Over the years, I've worked out various faith issues in this light and have not only come to the conclusion that I believe as the Orthodox do, but that this in no way diminishes what Latin Catholics believe. Latin Catholics, like my aunt, who yell at me when I say this simply haven't examined Orthodoxy at any length at all.

And I've come to accept the Pope as he was accepted by the East in the first millennium.

Does this make me less of a Catholic?

Well, I believe that he is the First among Equals in the entire Church.

I believe that when he would define an article of faith (ideally within the context of an Ecumenical Council) that this is binding on all Catholics - unless, as in the East, they already believe in the Holy Conception of the Theotokos and her bodily assumption.

I also believe that his jurisdiction is shared by Eastern Patriarchs but that he can be called upon directly by any Eastern church to intervene - but only when called upon or when a CHurch canon of the Councils is broken by a Local Church.

Otherwise, Rome must stay out of the business of EC Churches and the Congregation for the Eastern Churches should be disbanded.

I believe that I share, in a large measure, in the same Orthodoxy as my Orthodox brothers and sisters, even though I experience the pain of being not in communion with them.

Alex

Dear Friends,

Just a note to say that my raising this matter has resulted in a good conclusion!

The poster I referred to here has contacted me to explain the situation and I apologised to him for misunderstanding the matter as to "who said what about whom."

That is very good!

There are still those who will go after people, as really DID occur on one forum, and there are those (including one Western Rite Orthodox priest who still considers I belong to the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church) who simply refuse to engage in what I think many would consider to be civil Christian discourse.

Oh, well!

And, once again, thanks to you all for your kindness, Orthodox, Eastern Catholics and Latin Catholics - you are all my brothers and sisters in OLGS Jesus Christ!

Alex

Dr. Alex,

Please explain for me these positions. I am asking for a clarification. Who makes up the Congregation for the Eastern Churches?

Thanks,

Dr. Eric

Some Bible teaching and Bible preaching is always good for the soul:

"Though he was harshly treated, he submitted and opened not his mouth." Isaiah 53:7;

Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you [falsely] because of me, for your reward will be great in heaven." Matthew 5:11; and

"Bless those who persecute [you], bless and do not curse them." Romans 12:14.

I don't her autobiography handy - shame on me - but I recall the Little Flower told a story of when a glass of some kind was broken when a novice and her were arguing about whose turn it was to put the object away. It fell, broke when it hit the ground, and brought the Mother Superior running. The other novice said "It's the fault of Sr. Therese of the Child Jesus." The Little Flower stood there moot and accepted the punishment even though it was not merited.

She tells another story about a superior accusing her of doing something wrong which had been done by somebody else. The Little Flower stood there, was severely scolded, and then ran down the stairs crying rather than to stand up and defend herself.

JP