www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall EU APPROVES ROUMANIA AND BULGARIA

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5380024.stm

With a happy heart for Marian and his compatriots!

Alice

Hate to be a party-pooper, but I don't think getting involved with EU is a good thing. They will attempt to force paganization/secularization on those countries. Give it a short period of time, and immense pressure will be put on Bulgaria and Romania to recognize same-sex marriage, and to promote liberal abortion laws (if they don't already have them from prior communist regimes). Not too long ago, both the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople were criticizing the proposed constitution for EU on the grounds that it ignored Europe's Christian patrimony. This was not just an oversight. Many of the "movers and shakers" of EU have Marxist backgrounds.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

Yes, Bulgaria and Romania, both majority Orthodox, become the 26th and 27th member-nations of the European Union officially on January 1st, 2007.

However, as both nations have the lowest GNP in the EU today, economic demographers predict a "massive" emigration to "greener" pastures elsewhere in Europe, notably to Italy and the UK.

Croatia might be next, and looming on the horizon (about 10 years?) . . . Turkey, if ever it gets its house in order (i.e., recognition of the freedom of religion)!

Amado

I agree and have seen it in Greece, however, it is a fact that people are struggling economically in these countries and in that sense, this will be their salvation.

Materialism, paganism, and the culture of selfishness and sex permeate mostly every country today including our own,(excluding Islamic countries) whether they are in the EU or outside of it.

Sincerely,
Alice

Now when can Ukraine expect to be admitted? In contrast to Turkey, all of Ukrainian territory is well within Europe (in fact, Ukraine contains the geographic mid-point of Europe, at Iasinia).

Fr. Serge

Under what the EU calls "enlargement process," the 5th Accession Treaty only included Bulgaria and Romania from the 5 "nation-candidates" to have "hurdled" the requirements for accession by January 1, 2007. The 3 remaining current crop of "nation-candidates" are Croatia, the Former Yudgoslav Republic of Macedonia, and Turkey.

The next batch of "potential candidate countries" include: Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, and Serbia. No indications yet as to the "status" of Ukraine or the other remaining European countries.

It seems the EU is fulfilling its "goal" of granting accession to former Eastern European countries after first granting the same to "traditionally" Western European nations.

But, I am equally "puzzled" by the consideration of Turkey ahead of Ukraine. However, due to the opposition of some Western European countries and, by perception, by the Vatican, Turkey may not be able to comply with all of the "requirements" for accession leaving Croatia and FYRM gaining accession by themselves alone next time around.

Amado

Thank you for this thread, my true sister in Christ, Alice

Brethren in Christ, take into your wise consideration that a work hour - average - is paid with $1.7.

It is a political admission, not a logical one. When I visited a year ago Greece, I was quite shocked by prices. I mean usual things, of course.

I was so fine in Greece. Only the warmth and blue and that sea? It was more. Freedom!

Romania has zones with deep poverty, although you may see more Mercedes than at Paris or London. Corruption, bribes, survival.

Law is not law. If EU sends some people to check on how Romania deals with the EU's laws and regulations, by wonder they forget they are German or Brittish, and become in behaviour very Romanian.

All is imitated, no core. The abortion is free from 1990. This is very bad.

Devil wants to bite everyone. No matter if you live at Bucharest, Galati, Paris, New York etc. Free will.

Romania and Buglaria were admissed, but not with respect. Our countries are very weak after those dark years of the communism.

I live so near to the biggest steel factory of SE of Europe. It was sold a time ago to Mittal Steel. With help of Tony Blair. A true European "cooperation". Right so!

In Christ, Marian+

I check on a couple of news sites from Poland (in English) nearly every day. It seems that the Polish government wants to be on good terms with Ukraine.
I will leave it to others to decide if they think Poland is doing this strictly to suit itself or if the Polish are genuinely seeking friendship with Ukraine (I suspect the latter). Poland has wanted Ukraine to join NATO, but that has been frozen for the time being.

Poland is on good terms with Turkey. Historically, the predecessor to Turkey did not recognize the partiton of Poland. Should Poland reach a position of influence in the EU, I could see Poland supporting Ukranian membership.

Dear Marian,

You have expressed many thoughts in the above post.

Can I ask you one question, because it is hard to discern your sentiments....do you, as a Roumanian citizen, welcome accession and admittance to the EU, or do you fear it? Do you think that it will ultimately be a good thing for your country and fellow countrymen, or do you think that it will be a bad thing?

Thankyou.

Alice

Of course, I welcome the admission of Romania and Bulgaria. Secularism already bited this place, matter of free will.

It is so welcome in our hearts, this means freedom for my sister, for example.

Personally I found Greece better than Romania regarding many aspects. At least the shown face. Walking along Egnatia Avenue in Thessaloniki I understood that freedom is important.

What to say, I counted 3 years month after month until 1st of January 2007. For my sister, for being free.

I wait some changes in good, for all. It is much to build here, however the politicians do not have on their agendas true projects as education, health etc.

"Be still and know I am God." Best!

In Christ, Marian+

Thank you. Then, indeed, I pray for your country and its prosperity and good.

Indeed, just yesterday I saw, on CNN, a tour of some terrible hospitals where babies and children have been abandoned, and also one where children who were handicapped, either because of neglect or birth.

My goddaughter's parents (an American woman married to a Greek man) adopted a little boy from Roumania about ten years ago. Little Demetri was about four or five when they adopted him--very skinny and small from poor nutrition and they had to work with him alot with love, hugs, and kisses to get him to have the will to thrive, because as a baby he was deprived of even basic human touch in the orphanage.

Lord have mercy on us all!

In Christ,
Alice

Actually, Romania had a strict anti-abortion law and Ceaucescu promoted the birthrate to such an extent that we saw those children living in horrific conditions in orphanages.
Both of these countries under Communism had laws against homosexuality which were quite repressive.

[QUOTE]I will leave it to others to decide if they think Poland is doing this strictly to suit itself or if the Polish are genuinely seeking friendship with Ukraine (I suspect the latter). Poland has wanted Ukraine to join NATO, but that has been frozen for the time being./QUOTE]

Most educated Poles would agree today that Poles were a nation / society in decline ever since the 16th century rise of Ruthenian (later Ukrainian) Kozak leader Bohdan Khmelnytsky against the brutal feudal Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The Commonwealth was the largest monarchy in Europe and one in which the Ruthenians (later Ukrainians) were not represented and only subjugated. It should be noted that many of the Ruthenian Free Men (Kozaks) viewed the Unia of Brest of 1596 as nothing more than an attempt to assimmilate and subjugate them. The Kozaks eventually formed an alliance with the Muscovites (now Russians) to the North to preserve their independence and Orthodox faith. This alliannce of course turned out to be even more destructive to the Free Ruthenians (Kozaks) than was the feudal ( Panstchyna Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Imperial Russia also eventually took over what is today Poland and held most of this territory for generations.

Educated Poles have over the centuries come to realize that a true friendship with Ukraine is as you say "suiting itself". As Lech Walensa, leader of Poland's Solidarity movement once said "without a Ukraine, there will be no Poland".

I.F.

It's a good thing because girlfriend doesn't need visa for Mexico anymore but it's a bad thing because the EU has some laws that prevent any religion to become official.

There was a lot of hope that Orthodoxy would become the national religion once again in those countries and now this won't be possible as the major social-democrat parties will not allow this.

We have seen how in Greece the UE is pushing so that the government revokes the special status of Mount Athos.

Dear Dn. Robert you said:

I say:

The following is part of an article from the BBC. It shows the deplorable conditions in Roumania, which is a pity because they are religious, hard working, and well educated:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5385958.stm

Europe diary: Romanian emigration
28 September 2006
BBC Europe editor Mark Mardell discusses the motives Romanians may have for seeking work abroad, and the UK's plans to stop some of them coming - and he asks what mass emigration does to a country.

EAGER TO WORK
We are deep in the Romanian countryside, on a dirt track off the main road. Three heavily laden horse-drawn wagons of a type familiar from westerns come to a dusty halt. The Roma on board are eager to tell their story. Constantina Ion is almost pleading with us: "For the sake of Jesus Christ, tell people how much poverty there is here! The police keep taking our horses and caravans away."

Constantin does not want to beg
She says they are scrap metal dealers by trade but there is no more scrap metal to be had.

Her husband, confusingly named Constantin Ion, would be a dream for an overwrought tabloid. But he's pretty good for us as well. His teeth flash gold as he tells his story with wide expansive gestures, his grubby white shirt open, exposing a cascade of black chest hair. He pauses only to pick another black seed from the sunflower head the size of a dinner plate and spit in the dirt.

He says that they all have passports and have in the past travelled to Germany to find work "on the black", but were chased back by the police. He says they would love to go to Britain, and the British government would be wrong to impose restrictions on Romanians who want to come. He says: "We don't want to beg on street corners. I want to work hard, with a shovel. I am an honest worker."

TABLOID FURY

Wittingly or not, he strikes the nail on the head. At the beginning of next year Constantin and his family, as well as Romania's IT specialists and bankers, will be able to come to Britain without a visa. That's because Romania and Bulgaria will join the European Union on New Years' day, 2007. The question before the British Government is whether they will be allowed to legally work.

Migrant workers in the UK: What we know
Although Britain was one of only three countries to allow unrestricted access to people in from the eight former communist countries which joined in 2004, Romanians and Bulgarians almost certainly won't get the same treatment. Ministers were rather proud that while the French trembled at the thought of their precious 35-hour-week and high wages being undercut, Britain was showing the way to a true free market.

But they were undermined by their tremendous underestimate of how many Eastern European workers would want to come to Britain. And sneering at the French is one thing, failing to tremble before the might of tabloid fury is quite another. It's always interesting when the demands of big business and the demands of nationalism clash, and that's what's happening now. While the majority of reports say the migration was beneficial to the economy, there are serious worries about the strain on the school and health systems.

GRINDING POVERTY
It's little wonder people want to come, whether they are welcomed grudgingly or not at all.

I am really surprised by Ferentari, a part of Bucharest five miles from the centre. I expected the dirty and run-down communist-era flats. I expected the rather creaking trams heading out from the city centre. But the trams run past side streets which are dusty and unpaved, littered with single-storey block-like concrete buildings.

Ferentari is reminiscent of Africa, not Europe
They're brightly painted, with wires hanging at odd angles and roofs that don't quite fit. It reminds me of Africa, not Europe. Romania's problem is not high unemployment, or a poor economy, or a lack of skills. In fact in many ways it's doing pretty well. But it is grindingly poor. People can simply earn much more in just about any other part of Europe. Italy and Spain, once themselves the source of cheap labour, are the favourite destinations.