www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Is alcohol drinking clergy OK?

I didn't know that Eastern Catholics were so strongly against alcoholic drinks.

Is this prescribed for all or just the clergy?

Wild Goose,

Is that quote from another thread here on the forum?

Many years,

Neil

Wild Goose is responding to a comment I made. My comment was that if someday the medical community established a genetic predisposition to alcoholism in some individuals such a genetic predisposition would not make it OK for such an individual to drink alcohol (because partaking of alcohol by someone who is predisposed to alcoholism can lead to alcoholism). Likewise, if the medical community should someday establish a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality such a genetic predisposition would not make it OK for a homosexual individual to engage in homosexual sexual activity. Individuals with such disorders are taught to avoid situations in which there could be a temptation towards sinful activity.

Wild Goose takes a huge leap with his conclusion that Eastern Catholics have a strong stand against alcohol. Such a leap is not justified by the points I have made. The Church and its Scripture make a clear differentiation between the use of alcohol (which is moral) and drunkenness (which is not moral). In examining one aspect of this in today�s terminology this means that since the tendency towards alcoholism in some is of unknown origin that such a tendency is disordered, but not wrong or sinful. Drunkenness is, however, wrong and, depending on the circumstances, can be immoral. Neither the Church nor its Scriptures make a definitive statement about where the line between acceptable use of alcohol and unacceptable use of alcohol is, but it has always understood this line to be where an individual looses self-control.

Similar parallels can be constructed for a number of disorders. A diabetic, for example, should avoid improper levels of eating sugar because eating improper levels of sugar leads to health problems. Scripture does not speak directly to diabetes as it does to drunkenness and homosexual sexual activity, but it does speak to the need for us to take care of our bodies, to do what is moral and right.

It should come as no surprise that a recent study found that while 44% of all active and admitted homosexualists illegal drug taking is a regular activity only 17% of the population as a whole partake of such behavior. I wonder if one excluded the homosexualists drug habits from the general population how much lower the second figure would be. Disordered is as disordered does.

I feel much sympathy for anyone trapped in addictive behavior. Nevertheless, because someone is trapped in such behavior does not make the behavior ordered.

Dan L

Admin,

Thanks for the clarification. Not to hijack the thread, but is the "search" function as functional as it once was? I tried searching that line before I asked the question and felt fairly confident that there were sufficient unique words in it that the original post would be captured. Obviously, it wasn't, which is what prompted me to post my query.

This is a problem that I've noted several times recently, both in searching for particular topics that might or might not exist and in looking for posts that I know exist - for example, posts that I know I've made using specific phrases that are sufficently unique that they should be readily capturable.

Many years,

Neil

Dan

"a recent study"

is this study available to the general public? is it possible to link us to it on this forum?

I heard the report on WBBM radio in Chicago. This may be the link but I don't see the detail I heard.

http://www.wbbm780.com/includes/news_items/news_items_more.php?section_id=15&id=11494

I'll keep looking.

Dan L

Neil,

Yes. Although the search function provide by the software we use on the Forum has never been very robust. I will be upgrading the Forum software sometime this summer (as soon as the new software is shown to be stable). The makers of the software tell me that the search utility in the new software is vastly better than the current software.

Admin

Wild Goose,

Please also remember to post links and/or references for the many claims you are making in your posts.

Admin

My alternative care doctor says that people who are predisposed to alcoholism are people who are allergic to alcohol. I found that to be interesting and posed the statement to a recovering alcoholic who has been sober for twenty-six years. He said that is a standard thought of AA. That a great many people become alcoholics because they are allergic to it, their body becomes depleted of what it needs to handle the alcohol, then begins to crave what is bad for it, and they become hooked.

Pani Rose

Pani,

I've read the same about homosexuaity. It may start with a curiosity. Social moraes have been so depleted over the last several years that fewer people are willing to resist the curiosity. The more it is practiced the more our brains are actually changed. The point of the study is, and I don't have a link though in time I could find it, that more than the temptation causing the disordered behavior the disordered behavior causes the increasing temptation.

BTW I wonder how today advocates would label Caligula?

Dan L

I need a beer. Too bad I'm out in the Midwest now--can't get Yuengling out here. Oh well. Life can be really rough some times.

Thanks for the above clarification.

Surely we know enough now to know that alcoholism is a disease which some drinkers are prone to and some are not.

It can certainly be genetic so that those who have a family history of this must be more than careful, and those who have a problem controlling alcoholic intake need to seek help.

So,I agree that a pre-disposition to alcoholism can exist. As to whether the clergy can drink or not - I think it obviously depends on the person and their disposition to drink which includes clergy as well as anyone else who may be prone to this.

Wild Goose started this thread by stating:

I didn't know that Eastern Catholics were so strong against alcoholic drinks.

Is this prescribed for all or just clergy?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think Easter Catholics as well as Western Catholics would maintain for those who are able to drink alcohol.

>>>> moderation.

In Christ,

Mary Jo

LT,

Appreciate the humor. I must have been posting when you posted cause just read this. Yes, it is rough here too at 90 degrees and nothing but diet pepsi in the frig.

Whoops, there goes another rubber plant tree!

Hi John/Admin,

I'm not aware of having made "many" claims, thanks. When I do make a claim, from a source to which a link can be provided, I'll be sure to do so.

Thorough exegesis of the Bible is most all that is required, but I think you are referencing another topic, not this one, right?

Engaging in the consumption of alcoholic beverages may or may not initiate what may be discovered to be a person's genetic disposition to alcoholism.

There is use of alcohol, there is misuse of alcohol, there is abuse of alcohol... all of which may not lead those who use, misuse or abuse to being alcoholics.

The theory is that there are any number of alcoholics living and working in the world... who have never had one drink. My own grandmother may have been one such person; she knew that alcoholism 'ran' in the family. Several of her nephews died of alcoholism, the effects thereof. She warned me of this when I was in my late teens/early twenties.

Because one of my parents abused alcohol, I have always been careful with this drug (the drug of choice for millions upon millions in our world and the one which kills more than any other drug-- yet is socially acceptable in Western society and elsewhere). Because I was not certain if this parent was an alcoholic or not, as a young adult, I found it helpful to attend ACoA meetings, for several years.

I know from whence I speak, but it's not going to be the sort of knowledge that is quantifiable, if you know what I mean.

Ask me how I know that Jesus is Lord of my life... and you'll get a similar answer as well. blessing, wg

Wild Goose,

Yes, I was referring to your claims in other threads, claims which you have stated as obvious truths but for which you produced no scientific evidence.

Your own grandmother is an excellent example of someone who wisely chose not even to consider drinking alcohol (even though there is a legitimate use of alcohol) because she knew it could lead towards the alcoholism. There are certainly large numbers of alcoholics living and working in the world who have never had one drink. There are also large numbers of alcoholics who have drunk in the past and learned the hard way that the abuse of alcohol is immoral. The struggle to avoid alcohol for someone with an alcoholic disorder is great and those with such a tendency are to be helped and cared for.

You have seen alcohol abuse and you know in your heart the damage it can do to a family and to society. The Church, in its wisdom, sees this struggle as well as other struggles. You took the original quote from the discussion on homosexual activity. The Church, in a clear teaching since Genesis knows the struggle of homosexual individuals and offers support to them to refrain from all immoral sexual activity and to unite their struggles to the Cross. Your grandmother knew that alcohol abuse was immoral and lived a life that avoided temptations towards alcoholism (since abuse of alcohol is immoral). Likewise, the Church asks everyone to live lives that avoid every possible temptation towards immoral behavior. The Church knows from whence it speaks. This knowledge is quantifiable.

Since this thread is really an offshoot of another thread I will close it. If you wish to respond I recommend keeping the discussion within the other thread.

Admin