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#169515 10/18/04 05:04 AM
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Voter's Guide - on video
http://www.catholic.com/mm/video_vg1.asp

Voters Guide - Easy Print version
http://www.catholic.com/library/vg_print.asp

Voter's Guide - Latest ad appearing in USA Today (10/12/2004)
http://www.catholic.com/media/vg_ad_041012.pdf

Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
http://www.catholic.com/library/voters_guide_christian.asp
for our non-Catholic bretheren.

#169516 10/18/04 06:15 PM
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Anything with an imprimatur, nihil obstat, or other indication that it comes from proper authority?

#169517 10/19/04 02:23 PM
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Well, I haven't found an official endorsement like djs inquired about, either. The material tracks to catholic.com, which is supported by a communications firm, but appears to be primarily evangelically oriented, and without a specific endorsement either. Regardless of a printed endorsement, the brochures are available in the narthex at my own parish.

#169518 10/19/04 04:25 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by djs:
Anything with an imprimatur, nihil obstat, or other indication that it comes from proper authority?
I believe these church approvals apply only to matters of Catholic faith and morals, i.e., bibles, catechisms, prayers books, and liturgical and theological books.

#169519 10/19/04 04:43 PM
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Interestingly, I have yet to see any voter's guides show up in the parish where I play. Either no on bothers to provide them, or the pastor doesn't allow them, I don't know which. I wonder if those things actually change anyone's mind?

#169520 10/19/04 05:34 PM
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#169521 10/19/04 07:35 PM
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Here's another voter's guide.

http://www.cafeteriacatholics.com/

I found as I suspected. I agree with the Bishops for the most part but disagree with Kerry completely.

Dan L

#169522 10/20/04 12:12 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Jim:
Well, I haven't found an official endorsement like djs inquired about, either. The material tracks to catholic.com, which is supported by a communications firm, but appears to be primarily evangelically oriented, and without a specific endorsement either. Regardless of a printed endorsement, the brochures are available in the narthex at my own parish.
Jim,

catholic.com is Catholic Answers (CA), a Catholic non-profit apologetics business (not sure how else to describe them. although they'd say they are a lay apostolate) headed by Karl Keating, lawyer turned apologist and operating out of San Diego.

CA has been rather out of sorts at the fact that the USCCB not only didn't seize on it's voter's guide as the best thing since sliced bread, but apparently recommended against its use and had the audacity to, instead, issue its own publication.

Many years,

Neil, who admits to not being a CA fan and to having been banned from CA's on-line forum for the next 30 days eek


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#169523 10/20/04 12:16 AM
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Neil, who admits to not being a CA fan and to having been banned from CA's on-line forum for the next 30 days
WooHOO!!! Way to go, buddy! biggrin

#169524 10/20/04 12:27 AM
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biggrin
What on earth could you have done that merited banning?

Please provide a link!

#169525 10/20/04 12:37 AM
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Inquiring minds want to know biggrin

#169526 10/20/04 02:08 AM
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First off, let me say that I'm not the first of our community here to suffer the ignominy of suspension from CA. Two of my brothers, who shall go unnamed, have had the same fate in times past.

Well, I did break CA's rules, I guess, having a tendency to be unforgiving of pomposity (despite the fact that my wife claims I am in no position to take that standpoint :p ).

Briefly, they have an option on their member profile that allows one to enable/disable e-mail messages from CA (other than notifications about pms and replies posted to subscribed threads). Of late, there have been a rash of posted complaints from folks (including me) who have rec'd e-mails from CA promoting their Voter's Guide, a Video regarding same, an Apologetics Cruise (Note to John, how come we don't go on cruises? confused ), etc., despite having disabled the option to receive such.

Threads complaining about these e-mails (which folks have rightly labeled "spam") are inevitably locked or deleted as soon as they catch an official eye and were partially responsible for creation of a new "banned topic" - "Questioning Moderator Decisions".

(Keating and CA don't suffer criticism well - Keating himself once posted to a thread on the Miracle of the Holy Fire, indicating that it was explained by the fact that the Patriarch of Jerusalem carried matches or a lighter into the Holy Sepulchre. His comment, couched in words that suggested it was an official Church position, resulted in demands that he clarify it as his personal opinion and/or retract it and in cries of outrage from EC and EO posters. The entire thread disappeared. Infallibility is alive and well at CA in the person of Mr. Keating.)

Anyway, when I received another e-mail from CA, after complaining once already, I opened a thread - which disappeared - and then tagged a post onto someone's else's thread on the subject, which had escaped official notice.

The result - my official notice of suspension - e-mailed to me this evening:

Quote
Irish Melkite�

Your account has been suspended for one month for the following infractions:

1.) Posting a private message from Therese Martin, Super Moderator, in a public forum without her permission to do so.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=2

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�Discussion Forum Rules/Content Rules, #2: �Do not post others� e-mail addresses, private messages, or private e-mail sent by them unless they give you permission to do so.��
2.) Continuing, despite knowledge that it is a banned topic, to discuss moderator actions in the public forums:

Quote
10/18, 9:45 AM:

Re: Why is CA spamming me?

Darcee,

Count your blessings that Will spotted this thread and is looking into it. I started an almost identical thread sometime yesterday - although a tad more aggravated in tone, since it was the second time I have raised the same issue and had the situation recur.

My thread was deleted outright, presumably because it fell into the unstated (but clearly existing) banned topic of "Questioning CA Actions" (or "Criticizing CA"), undoubtedly a step up from the ban on "Questioning Moderator Decisions" - the difference perhaps between doctrine and dogma.

Many years,

Neil
3.) Despite the fact that your question was answered by Therese Martin, who explained that email will sometimes leak through blocks and should be reported so that the problem can be fixed, sending the Administrator a chastisement for Catholic Answers� policies rather than simply reporting the problem:

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Folks,

It is about time someone answered the issue repeatedly raised regarding the receipt of spamming e-mail from CA, particularly in instances where the member has utilized the "no e-mail from CA Administrators" option. And answering the issue doesn't mean deleting every thread in which it is raised.

You need thicker skins; it is your forum and your bandwidth, but this continued farce, by which any thread or post that smacks of disagreement or criticism of CA is either locked or (more commonly) deleted is beginning to be noticed and commented upon both here and elsewhere (including other Catholic sites) on the net. Quite frankly, you are starting to look a bit foolish and taken with yourselves.

The time spent sniffing out those who would dare to question your actions would be better spent on solving some of the real system issues and dealing with the some of the outright foolishness that is posted. It also uses bandwidth and makes the site look like an adolescent chat forum.

Neil
For the future, if you wish to know the reasons why certain policies have been instituted, the proper procedure is to ask privately of a Super Moderator or the Administrator, but to refrain from belittling forum policies before you have requested and received the reasons for them.

Your suspension will be lifted November 19. If you have any questions or concerns about this action, please write to forumadmin@catholic.com . Do not call Catholic Answers� business office or order line as this will have no effect in resolving the situation.

Forum Administration Staff
Catholic Answers Forums
And you guys think John is tough :rolleyes: . He's a marshmallow compared to his counterparts at CA (who wouldn't survive a week in our home here).

Anyway, it's probably unlikely that I'll return to CA after the ban is lifted. My purpose in being there was to assure an EC presence when questions were raised about "the other lung", since my early impression was that CA staff lacked anyone with any appreciation for or knowledge of the East. That is still true. However, there are others of us there now - both EC and EO - who serve that role well, including several from this community - Michael (Coalesco), Al (a pilgrim), DavidB, Deacon Ed, Pani Rose, Amado, , Brad (Intrigued Latin), JGC (who came here from there), and probably a few others whom I've missed. They do a more than admirable job smile and I think we'll soon see a few new members here from our evangelization over there - both ECs and EOs who weren't aware of this board and some Latins with a sincere interest in the East. (Michael and I have been corresponding with one such gentleman over the past few days).

My only regret in not being able to at least access the site in a "lurk" mode is that I did a couple of comprehensive posts on the basics of the EC Churches that I wish I had copied for future use frown . I'll wait out the 30 days - retrieve copies of those - and move on.

My message to those here is to be very appreciative of our Administrator and our Moderators; their tolerance level greatly exceeds that their counterparts on other forums.

Additionally, value your fellow posters. Our forum home here truly is a community and family - we sometimes wax sentimental about that but too often we just take the spirit here for granted. Yes, we fight, with passion, and we are occasionally nasty to one another in defence of whatever issue is our cause celebre of the moment. Overall, though, there are no other forums like this in my experience. There aren't a lot of folks out there like Alice, Bob (Theophan), Mary Jo (Porter), Archimandrite Gregory, David (Chtec), Angela/Anhelyna (Our Lady's slave), Andrew, Randy (Diak), Gaudior, and the many others who enrich our lives here, pray for and with us, entertain us, educate us, challenge us, or intrigue us (Incognitus biggrin ).

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#169527 10/20/04 04:01 AM
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You know, since you brought the subject up, I have considered Keating to be something of a brass-plated little pope for some years now. I used to read some of his publications, but came to view him as something of a Latin Rite fundamentalist. He has a simplistic and very narrow view of the Church and doesn't seem to understand it's richness of tradition at all. You are not missing a thing by staying away from CA. In my experience, they dont' have that much in the way of answers. So much for my 2 cents worth.

Charles

#169528 10/20/04 04:57 AM
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Neil that is funny! I keep loosing my bookmark to the place, so I quit searching for it. Maybe the Lord is telling us to let it go for now.


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