www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall When will armed Jihad end?

When will armed jihad end?
Perhaps when Britain and the US stop terrorizing Muslims, invading their lands, and supporting Israel blindly?
See this website [robertfisk.com] for the photographs of British journalist Robert Fisk, a man of vast experience in the Middle East [warning: not for the faint of heart; contains disturbing images of civilian casualties].
He also has great credibility because he was denouncing the crimes of Saddam Hussein in the 80s, when the US, Britain, and the USSR were arming and supporting him against Iran...
Radical Islamist jihad is almost entirely the creation of the West; originally British and American intelligence supported and trained the Muslim Brotherhood as a ploy against Communism and Arab nationalists [like Nassar]. And we trained and armed the Taliban and bin Laden's "Afghan Arabs" in Afghanistan. And encouraged Hamas against Yassar Arafat.
Read the history!
-Daniel

Daniel,

When was the last time you saw a Christian behead a Muslim?

I cannot believe you are so brain washed to think the way you do. It is quite scary, actually. The United States is of course not flawless, but come on, reread what you actually just posted.

One dirty bomb will ruin your day.

Wise up, sir.

-uc

Iconophile,

I have read the history and my recollection from reading it goes back much further than 1950. Armed Jihad has been going on since day one of Islam. A lot more than what you prescribe is required to end it.

CDL

I suppose when those who think that taking up arms is the meaning of Jihad and yet the real Jihad has to be fought on the inside against sin.

ICXC
NIKA

I think you are correct. There is a struggle within Islam over this very issue. Always has been. Yet, I don't believe that day will ever come because both forms of Jihad are in the Qur'an and the Sharia. Still we can pray to that end and even better, pray for their conversion to Christ and for our own conversions.

CDL

Originally posted by ukrainiancatholic:

[qb] Daniel,

When was the last time you saw a Christian behead a Muslim?

I cannot believe you are so brain washed to think the way you do. It is quite scary, actually. The United States is of course not flawless, but come on, reread what you actually just posted.

One dirty bomb will ruin your day.


Dear uc,

And American bombs are "clean", I suppose? When was the last time you saw a young Iraqi child disfigured by American weaponry? Check out the site I linked to..

I am speaking of jihadism as a modern reality. The revival of Wahhabism is directly related to American and British intelligence operations [see the book "Devil's Game", by Robert Dreyfuss], promoted and funded also by our "allies" in Saudi Arabia.
You, sir, are the one who seems brainwashed by the neocons, who are using the monster they created to scare us into support for their global corporate empire and erosion of our rights at home.
This is not to say that Islam does not have within it elements that are dangerous and violent. All religions evolve: does anyone remember the Taborites? Or the early Anabaptists? Or Simon de Montfort, who massacred villages in the name of Christ?
However, the growth of radical jihadism is for the most part a reaction against the West and Israel.
Bush and his neocon handlers have done more to make Islamism attractive than bin Laden ever did.
And you all, when you generalize about Muslims don't help matters, either.
Heck, even some conservatives [Fukayama, Buckley, etc] are seeing the light -or at least abandoning a sinking ship- but some of you are still marching blindly behind Bush & Co...

-Daniel

Daniel,
Excuse my ignorance, but what did the early Anabaptists do so terrible? One (or more) sides of my family came (were probably expelled) from Switzerland before the American Revolution because they were Anabaptists. The Amish are also Anabaptists and came from Switzerland.
Who were the Taborites? And whom did Simon de Montfort massacre - Huguenots?
Thanks, Wolfgang

Daniel,

I thought we were discussing religious matters. Now you insert politics. I really wish you'd stay on track.

CDL

Daniel,

Your post can only be taken as something out of Alice in Wonderland. Up is down, down is up, right is left, left is right, etc.

I suppose the innocent peace loving Muslims were responding to American and British 'terror' (one of your Alice in Wonderland statements) when they
invaded, conquered, and pillaged Serbia in the 1300s and continue to do so today. Oh it must have been the US 'terror' that caused Kosovo, which was the cradle of Serbian culture, to become 90% Albanian Muslim. And if the Muslims were behind it, it was peaceful right? The Serbs moved out on their own? Give me a break!

Can you explain to me how it is US and British 'terror', and especially the Jews, that are causing the conflict between Muslims and Christians in the Phillipines.

Or maybe you can explain how the US and British 'terror' are causing the Muslim and Buddist conflict in Kashmir.

Certainly you could explain to me how US and British 'terror' are causing Muslim terror in Chechneya.

Or maybe you can explain how somewhere between 80%-90% of the conflicts in the world are between Muslims and their neighbors.

Before you try your 'Neocon' label on me, know that I would have preferred us to stay out of Iraq(and thus disagreed with the Neocons), only because I knew that this administration would never take the gloves off and do what was necessary to win in Iraq.

Are you that misinformed on history? Armed Jihad was ocurring well before the US was even founded. For crying out loud, it was happening before Columbus was around.

You and Robert Fisk ought to be thankful that we have men and women willing to put their lives on the line to clean up Islamofascism. If your granddaughter ends up wearing a burqa, we'll see how much of a hero Robert Fisk is to you. Oh, that's right, it will be the Jews fault if that happens to her.

mc

What about the burning of the Alexandrian library? Was that the cause of American and British abuse?

What about the murder and rapes in Armenia? What about the conquest of Abyssinia? The Sudan? Egypt? North Africa? South Asia? What of the overwhelming of Constantinople? What about so many other expressions of armed Jihad? These are and were done by Muslims performing Jihad.

CDL

I disagree with much of what Daniel says regarding Islam, but I will give him some credit.25 years ago, I and I'm sure many other Westerners of Slavic or Russian descent, felt that Communism was the number one enemy, so much so that we ignored the rise of radical Islam.It's like my parents generation supporting Hitler in the hopes that Russia would be liberated from Communism.MY parents didn't support Hitler because they were leftists, my mother wasn't of Slavic descent.Like most leftists they lauded Stalin's treaty with Hitler which helped to bring about WWII as a great piece of strategy.I now believe our time resemble those of the pre WWII years.Then, you had Nazism and Fascism on the far right and the Soviets on the far left, both enemies of Christianity.Now, we have militant Islam on the far right and the radical gays and others like them on the far left, who more often tha not will defend the Islamofascists.Sadly,if militant Islam does get the upper hand, they will turn on these ACLU types who have been defending them, just as Hitler and Stalin turned on those who helped bring them to power.

Fr. Al,

I like your analogy.

CDL

The Mennonites, of which the Amish are a subsect, were the pacifist branch of Anabaptism; other groups were apocolyptic, vowing to bring about the Kingdom of Heaven by force of arms.
An Anabaptist group under John of Leyden took over the city of Munster, took multiple wives, and started executing the reprobate. Neighboring cities conquered them and executed John of Leyden.
The Taborites were medieval apocolyptics, also attempting to bring about the Kingdom by violence.
Simon de Montfort was a leader in the crusades against the Albigensians [Cathari] and razed whole villages of alleged heretics, killing men, women, and children. He is attributed with the infamous aphorism "Kill them all; God will sort them out."
These violent Christians went into battle quoting the Bible; mostly Old Testament, but not entirely ["I bring not peace but the sword"].
Hope this helps.
-Daniel

Very humorous, Dan, as if one could discuss violent jihad without mentioning history and politics...
And Fr Al; insightful post. I would only add that it wasn't just a matter of ignoring the rise of radical Islam. It was in fact directly funded and armed by British, and later, American intelligence as a wedge against Communism and Arab nationalism. This is a matter of history; if it seems to turn reality upside down, Alice in Wonderland style, perhaps it is because such operations are not widely covered in the establishment press.
I would note too the uniqueness of Wahhabi and Salafi extremism. They have none of the culture or philosophical interests of the Andalusian Muslims, lack all tolerance, which some Muslim regimes possessed to varying degrees, none of the artistic attainment of the Moghuls. They are the most intolerant, puritanical and anti-human form of Islam to come down the pike, and they have grown to be a threat because of the actions of the US and its allies.
It seems that the old game of "my enemy's enemy is my friend" inevitably blows up in your face.

-Daniel