www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Al Queda calls Queen enemy of Islam

Al Queda calls Queen \'enemy of Islam\' [uk.news.yahoo.com]

This one's for you Dr Roman

Al Queda's messages of love and reason never fail to warm the cockles of one's heart....


In the U.S. we have a short history, and as ridiculous as it seems, countries that have been around for millenia seem to harbor millenia and century old grudges, fears, suspicions, and worse: paranoias.

Having just finished seeing the series on the Crusaders, Cross and Crescent, I remembered this.
As one of the commentators, an author, observed, after 9/11, the Islamic world saw the U.S. start up the Crusades again...(ofcourse, the innocent use of the 'c' word by our President-- though I love him-- was not at all helpful)

I am afraid that we are in some sort of worldwide 'jihad', and the 'crusade' is one of implementing democracy in the Middle East, not Christianity, though the Muslim world doesn't seem to see it this way and I don't foresee them accepting otherwise any time soon.

As barbaric as the crusaders were, Christian civilization seems to have progressed a bit since then. On the other hand, the idea of blowing one's self up-- taking one's own precious life bestowed by God-- in order to kill countless others still leaves most of the Western world speechless. I wonder how the majority adherents of Islam feel about this, considering how many of their own are killed by this insanity.

May our Lord God help us all!

In Christ,
Alice

Just thinking...
All of these moments, does the terrorist target the Pope?
Probably the Pope was the worst 'enemy' in their list, but looks like the last enemy to be handled with in their list too...

God saves the Pope....

Is there anyone who ISN'T an enemy of "Islam" aka Al Queda? Certainly no one in the civilized world.

Sam

Well said! :rolleyes:

Alice

Friends- Let us be careful not to equate Islam with Al Queda; we are witnessing a long overdue Islamic reaction to Al Queda. Let us not play into their hands by calling all Muslims terrorists!
-Daniel

Dan,
I don't mean to imply Al Queda IS Islam. Rather the radical group Al Queda THINKS it is the mouthpiece of true Islam, declaring whomever they choose to be an enemy of the same.

Sam

Dear Sam,

I understood that you were not implying that Al Queda represents Islam .
I believew that it is also clear in my post.

I think that Daniel is just trying to be proactive about warning us not to generalize.

Alice

Dear Daniel you said:

Friends- Let us be careful not to equate Islam with Al Queda; we are witnessing a long overdue Islamic reaction to Al Queda. Let us not play into their hands by calling all Muslims terrorists!
-Daniel

I say:

Actually I think Islamic reaction against the terrorists is because Muslims are killing other Muslims...and/or that it might be detrimental to Islam.

But either way, it is some sort of progress. Besides, democracy goes against the very tenets of Islam and if a democracy could be established in Iraq the most progressive Islamic state....

Thanks be to God, (or Bush)!

Zenovia

Alice,

Thank you. I do see Daniel's point and agree it is easy for Christians to label the whole of Islam as terrorist. I would wish reciprocity from those of the Islamic Faith who label us as well.

There are crazies in every group. How they are permitted to go so far into their insanity is beyond me!

Sam

Do not underestimate the bitterness of the Islamic world toward the West, which in their eyes has humiliated them. And don't underestimate their outrage at the immorality of the USA, which is combined with self-righteousness on our part.
In the past this has led to silence at the outrages committed by Islamic terrorists. It is sort of like moderate Irishmen, who nevertheless did not speak out against the IRA because they loathed the British more.
Now that Al Queda is attacking Muslim civilians with impunity it is a wake up call. Let us not be cynical that it took this; it is really an example of human nature; sort of like Americans excusing the deaths of civilians at Hiroshima, but finding it intolerable in NYC in 2001.
-Daniel

I would argue that theocratic dictatorships also go against the tenets of Islam and that this is a modern phenomena contributed to by Western political forces.

Some types of democracy also go against Christianity, as various Popes have taught us.

As for the queen, she - claiming as her infamous ancestors, to be the "head" of the anglicans - is an "enemy" of the Church as well.

ELizabeth II is no more "Head" of the Church of Englandd than I am the Grand Mufti of Egypt.

Such a common criticism to use...

"Let us not be cynical that it took this; it is really an example of human nature; sort of like Americans excusing the deaths of civilians at Hiroshima, but finding it intolerable in NYC in 2001."
-Daniel

I don't get it. Please explain.

The Pope has been the target of terrorists.

I mean that Americans consider it justifiable to kill civilians in warfare [eg, Hiroshima and other WWII atrocities] but if Osama bin Laden uses the same logic to justify an attack on the World Trade Center [which after all was the economic center of the West] it is condemned as barbarous.
The example is not speculative; in justifying the 9/11 attacks, bin Laden indeed invoked the atomic bombings to show that killing civilians can be morally justified...
We need a morality that is consistent, not one that thinks an act is moral or immoral depending on the circumstances or that it is always moral if our side does it in the name of a greater good.
-Daniel

Dear Daniel,

I can't help but wonder about your assertion in your post on how we can perceive Hirosima as being justifiable, and yet you never mention at what was done to Germany. Especially when considering that every city in Germany was bombed into the stone age.

As an example: I was reading about a person from Paris saying how she was at the Nuremberg trials because of her knowledge of both English and German. She said miraculously the town hall where the trials were being held, was completely intact. It was the only building in the city that survived. Underneath the rubble were 45,000 dead people and all one could see was a beggar here and there or some poor survivor searching for his/her loved one.

Do you realize the extent of their sufferings, and yet you say nothing. The Japanese were just as tyranical and marshall as the Germans. The only difference was that their attrocities happened to the people in the Far East, not to the Europeans.

Could the mention of the civilians of Hiroshima and Nagasaki be because we were the only one's involved in their bombings, after all the complete destruction of Germany and it's young boys, (age 12 mind you) and it's civilian population was in concert with Britain, France and Russia.

Then again, should we forget that the invasion of Normandy was not only at the cost of who knows how many of our men, (they attacked at the most dangerous area), but at at the expense of 40,000 (or so I believe), French civilians, caught in the bombings and cross fire's. That no doubt was due to the indifference of the English.

It seems that we, the U.S.A. are always being held at a higher standard than that of other nations. If that is so, then why are you so intent on condemning us?

Zenovia

Dear Daniel you said:

"�Do not underestimate the bitterness of the Islamic world toward the West, which in their eyes has humiliated them."

I say:

The bitterness of the Islamic world towards the West should not be any worse than the bitterness of the Christians in that part of the world at the humiliation of having their civilization taken over by Islam. Yet the Christians went on with their lives, left their lands and really are not bitter.

So I think it shows a cultural difference, and it should be condemning to them, not to us.

You said:

" And don't underestimate their outrage at the immorality of the USA, which is combined with self-righteousness on our part."

I say:

In that sense you are right. We ship our immorality throughout the world, and then act so self-righteous because we believe in democracy, etc. Our government knows it and tries to perform a balancing act. It wants them to have democracy, and at the same time wants them to establish whatever type of democratic government it wants.

Hard work you know, dear chap!

Zenovia

Islam is evil. That is all.

Let God arise and His enemies be scattered!

Zenovia- I said "Hiroshima and other WWII atrocities", which of course included the bombing of German cities.
Hiroshima is often mentioned first when discussing the killing of civilians in war as it was the occasion of a new form of slaughter, an unprecedented breakthrough in mass murder.
And no, I do not hold America to a higher standard than other nations. I merely tire of Americans holding their nation to a lower standard, or claiming that somehow the moral law does not apply to our actions.
There is no way to justify what we did in WWII that does not use consequentialist reasoning, also known as situation ethics, which the Church has always condemned.
I am, in my comments about Islam, merely trying to get people to try to understand where they are coming from. Of course it is simpler to denounce them as "evil" as our friend UC just did, but is that wise?
And I fear we make the task of moderate Muslims that much more difficult when we respond like that.

John Paul the Great always tried to build bridges to Islam, emphasizing our commonality, and uniting against the common foe of secularization [like at the Cairo Population Conference, when the Catholics and Muslims kept the abortion lobby from doing great evil].
The current issue of Time magazine has a good article about a moderate Muslim imam in suburban DC who is doing good work; check it out before you decide "Islam is evil".
-Daniel

We should remember to pray for the conversion of the Muslims. It's too bad so many Christians don't pray like Muslims do. Just think if they were Christians and how they would challenge us all with their fervor!
-Wolfgang