www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pope Benedict XVI: GREEK-CATHOLIC UKRAINIAN CHURCH: BONDED TO ROME

Hasn't the church of Moscow already done that? What more is required?

To me the possible reconciliation of the ROCOR with the MP is a hopeful sign, it could be the catalyst for more such movement elsewhere. It has been 15 years since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the older generations are going home to God. It seems like a good time to bury the hatchet.

In any case, if you have any curiosity about the relationship of Greek Catholics to Rome head down to your closest Ukrainian Catholic or Ruthenian Catholic parish and check them out. Be sure to hang around for coffee afterward.

If you ever decide to become Catholic you would be received into the Russian Catholic church, which unfortunately has no hierarchy in the USA.

+T+
Michael

That's good advice, every time I have gone to the Ukrainian parish in St. Louis, I have felt such warmth and generosity that if I lived closer and didn't have to drag 4 children under the age of 5 to the Church I would go every week and actively seek to convert people to join as well. Now, if we could just get a pastor who didn't have to fly down from Chicago every week!

So hang out afterward, I just wished they had tea instead of coffee! :p

P.S. Michael, with that new Icon of St. Gregory Palamas, I thought you were someone else!

I will have this icon up for a week and no more After Pascha (according to the Orthodox calendar) I will settle down to changing only occasionally.

BTW, have you ever checked out the Ruthenian mission at the cathedral? It is on Saturday night according to John Poland.

+T+
Michael

I think it's a great choice for an icon at the Byzantine forum.

I hate to bring this up, but yours looks bigger than mine!

I think I am (unfortunately) slipping into "icon envy"

[Linked Image]

You guys crack me up!!!

I have attended the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy when it was at the Cathedral in the Mary Chapel. (Incedentally, when John Paul II was in town, that's where he said his private prayers!)

Now that the location has moved and I don't live in St. Louis I haven't been able (yet!) to worship at the Mission with John Patrick Poland and his parish. I will get there, maybe for my 5th anniversary next month!

It seems that my wife lets me have pick of where we go to church on special occasions.

PS How did you get your Icon so big? I can actually read the Greek on it now!

I think a Big Pantokrator is due to make an appearance!

Mike, I am very sympathetic to your position. I also love very much the ROCOR regarding their faithful adherence to liturgical tradition and worship with them when I can. I also see and agree with your points about the Sergian compromises. As Bishop Kallistos has pointed out, that history must be dealt with at some time by the MP. Not just its relationship to the Greek Catholics, 1946, etc., but the entire Sergian capitulation and later higher-level collaboration with the Soviet regimes - even to suspicions regarding Fr. Alexander Men, and far too many other issues to detail here.

The Russian Catholics in general are indeed very faithful to the Synodal liturgical tradition. Patriarch Tikhon of blessed memory was in fairly regular contact with Exarch Leonid before both were imprisoned, and Patriarch Tikhon was not only sympathetic but lent material support to the Exarch.

But we do not have an Exarch anymore, as Hesychios correctly observes. But I think that will change, at least in the diaspora. The new parish in Denver and several potentials in the works across the US has certainly heated up the question to reestablish the former exarchate of Harbin which was specifically established as an exarchate for the diaspora. Until then we have to rely on the Latins or other Greek Catholic hierarchies for assistance.

In Denver, L.A. and in other areas, the Latin hierarchies, to their great credit, have been very welcoming and accomodating in their concerns over the Greek Catholic communities wishing to retain authentic traditional worship.

And Michael/Hesychios - good points indeed. Not that Vatican I has gone away, or trying to deny its existence (which is ludicrous), I would also interject the principles of Cardinal Newman of the development of doctrine into the 20th century.

Clearly the actions of JPII with Orientale Lumen, etc. are a move in the right direction. Certainly not there yet, but since this attitude has been present since well before Florence it is not going away overnight. With this current Pontiff, we will see.
FDD

Dear Pavel Ivanovich,

The anathemas against the Union of Brest founders et alia were renewed and recited by Metropolitan Vladimir Sabodan and the UOC-MP on the Sunday of Orthodoxy this year - the official statement on this is on the website in Ukrainian at www.orthodox.org.ua [orthodox.org.ua]

I think it is available in Russian as well.

This was separate from the document you reproduced - but nonetheless equally as valid from the UOC-MP perspective.

Alex

So...why must a pope be in charge of all Churches? Doesn't that compromise the integrity and dignity of any Eastern Catholic bishops??? Doesn't that compromised the dignity of self-governing Catholic Churches?

Why must the pope overstep his bounds? What's the point of it?

The way I see it...the pope should be first among equals. And intervenes only if necessary. But overall, he shouldn't have supreme authority over all other Churches as if he's a dictator? What is the benefit of having the pope like that? And WHY???

Just because Christ made him the head of the earthly Church doesn't mean he should rule over other Catholic Churches. Right???

Help me, I'm puzzled...

I've always viewed it that way...and I've always thought he had no authority over any Byzantine Catholic Churches until recently here someone pointed it out to me...

I was like "WHAT!!!???? NO WAY!!!"

Please help me, y'all.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Wow! I can't believe I managed to connect, having had so much trouble in so many months!

Dear brother SPdundas,

The Pope's authority is not tyrannical, it is pastoral. I have never seen nor read of the Pope exercise his prerogatives in relation to the Eastern/Oriental Churches in a tyrannical way. And I have never seen nor read of the Pope exercising his prerogatives NOT collegially.

Until such time, I think you can rest at ease that the Pope's authority over all Christendom will never be exercised in a manner contrary to the canons (especially Apostolic Canon 34). Why are you so apprehensive about it?

The way I see it, the Pope's prerogatives, as it says in the CCC, is suppose to guard the dignity of the other bishops. From the Pope's holy defense of the See of Alexandria against imperial usurpation of her place among the Patriarchates, to the Pope's defense of holy Pope St. Athanasius against the Arian usurpers, to the Pope's defense of Patriarch St. Ignatius against the imperial intrusion of Photius, the Pope has done nothing but be true to his calling and responsibility in guarding the honor of his brother bishops. Perhaps your fear might be due to his exagerrated influence in the WESTERN Church during MEDIEVAL times. But why should his actions in the Western Church concern you?

Blessings,
Marduk

P.S. It is so very difficult for me to connect to the Byzcath forum from where I am, and due to my slow connection and old computer. This may be my only post for a while, so I hope I have offered some good things for you to consider. God bless everyone.
P.S. As it is so very difficult for me to

Is it me, or has there been a run of defaming Orthodox saints here?

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

As an Eastern Catholic, I agree with you and I hope that the poster who said that will apologise and make amends.

St Photius is not ONLY an Orthodox saint, but some Eastern Catholic Churches, such as the Byzantine Catholic Church, venerate him liturgically in their calendars.

And so do I - so after that one is finished apologising to the Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic Churches, I'm next in line!

Alex