www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall catholic - jewish

Hi All, I need something explained to me.

My sister is Latin Catholic and her husband is Jewish. Their son was baptized Catholic and received Holy Communion - however, about 15 years ago he was "confirmed" in the Jewish faith. And, now at the age of 30 he has been made "officially" Jewish by appearing before three rabbis. He's getting married in two months to a divorced Jewish woman whose family is Orthodox Jew (which was probably the reason he sought out the rabbis).

Questions:
He's still Catholic because of his baptism - and always will be, right?
Is it wrong for me to support this wedding?

Dear Rose,

Well, certainly the indelible mark of his Baptism will always remain with him, even though he has rejected his Catholic faith and embraced Judaism.

The "indelible mark" thing comes from the Roman practice of branding a soldier with the mark of the Emperor to signify he belonged to the Emperor.

We had a similar situation in my family.

I think you should attend the wedding and be happy for all concerned.

Nothing is to be gained by you doing otherwise.

Alex

The reverse has been observed.

Some Jewish converts to Catholicism say that they remain Jewish.

Like the noted Chief Rabbi of Rome was supposedly to have said after his conversion: "Becoming Catholic is to be a 'completed' Jew!"

Amado

Thanks guys - you always come through when I have a question.

Speaking of Jews - I saw this today on Spiritdaily and thought it to be interesting.
http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story273.htm

According to the Jewish faith one is a Jew through the mother.

He's still Catholic because of his baptism - and always will be, right?

The repudiation of the Christian faith by a person who had received Baptism and was raised as a Christian is called Apostasy.

Supernaturaly speaking he would still be Catholic I guess, but there's an interesting thing.

I read that in Italy and Spani, the homos have created a "movement" if it can be called like that, that wants to force the Church to "delete" christening records of people who want to "oficially apostatize").

According to the Jewish faith one is a Jew through the mother.

But I have heard of people who have converted to Judaism while not being of Jewish ancestry. How does this work?

Yikes! This would make a good soap opera plot. I guess nothing is simple anymore. But I do agree you should go just to keep peace. Going doesn't mean you put any stamp of approval on it.

Dear Mexican,

"Homos?"

Are you referring to people with a lactose intolerance?

In fact, those who officially apostatize SHOULD have their baptismal records deleted.

There are all sorts of baptized Catholics in Latin America who are, today, members of Marxist guerilla groups.

And the Latin Church includes these among statistics "of the faithful."

As for the case we are considering here, it may very well be that the person, although baptised, felt himself to be Jewish by upbringing, identity etc.

In that case, that is hardly "apostasy."

But "homos" is certainly bad manners.

Alex

In fact, those who officially apostatize SHOULD have their baptismal records deleted.

No, The earlier post correctly defined the indelible mark of baptism. Indelible has a meaning, "permanent."

God's grace is infinitely more powerful than apostasy or any sin. The mark of baptism remains despite grave sin. None the less the apostate is still liable to God's judgement if he/she fails to repent and receive Divine Mercy.

Blessed Mary, pray for us sinners.
Protect us from mortal sin.

Hi,


Nope. If he has repudiated the Christian faith, he is most certainly no longer a Catholic.

If he professes to be a Jew, and the Jews are OK with that, then Jew is what he is now.

He can never be "unbaptized", but Communion with the Catholic Church is something you have to actively keep.

Well, not meaning to be rude, but I would not consider that to be any of my business, if it was my nephew.

However, if you insist in having a say in the matter, then why would it be wrong to support a Jew getting married according to the Jewish rituals and regulations?

Shalom,
Memo

Not that it's any of my business, but since
you asked, I don't see how any Catholic can
support such an event. IMO, your attendance
at this wedding would be saying, "Go ahead,
reject the True Faith, and enter into an
adulterous marriage with a divorced woman"...

Quote:
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it"
Pope Felix III

Dear Rose ...

I totally diisasgee with Alex.

I think - you should - attend the wedding and be happy for all concerned as nothing is to be gained by you doing otherwise.

and I do hope that Alex comes around to my way of thinking. Some day perhaps he and I will agree on something.

-ray

Rose,

Since you asked for personal opinions, I'll give mine.

This "marriage" is not sacramental, first of all. It's simply a natural marriage.

And it seems it might not even be a marriage! If this woman was actually married beforehand, and her husband is still living, then this entire thing is a charade and a mockery of true marriage. Just because she's divorced doesn't mean she was actually married in the first place, since we as Catholics know that some certain things have to be fulfilled before marriage actually exists, regardless of what the law says.

I think one's presence at an event like this signifies support - and honestly, I don't think I could support this in good conscience.

But it's your decision, and of course there are probably always mitigating circumstances to which I'm not privy.

Logos Teen

I would like to note that Baptism makes you a CHRISTIAN and not a CATHOLIC or an ORTHODOX.

In Baptism we becom new people, the people who wear Christ in their lives.

As a follow-up .... this evening I attended the wedding and it was absolutely beautiful. It was an Orthodox Jewish wedding with a cantor and rabbis, the seven blessings, kabbalat Panim, veiling of the Bride, kiddushin, canopy (Chuppah) which was a family heirloom, etc. They raised both the bride and groom in chairs and sang and danced around them in circles. Then they put the chairs down and various members of the family performed for the bride and groom. The food was deliciously kosher, the music was fantastic - every thing was great! So much of their ceremony reminded me of our Byzantine services. So much of what they did was derived from the old testament - very, very symbolic.

I'm glad I went .

Sounds absolutely delightful. I've not been to a Jewish wedding for a long time, unfortunately for me.

Incognitus