www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall World War 3 - only a matter of time: Islam (Opinion)

The once Christian western world is turning slowly to be the �new Islamic world.�
Each year the number of Muslims increases in the western world, Europe and the United States.
According to data presented in the site of the Canadian Society of Muslims (http://muslim-canada.org/muslimstats.html) �Islam is growing about 2.9% per year which is faster than the total world population which increases at about 2.3% annually. It is thus attracting a progressively larger percentage of the world's population.� (this is originally taken from the �US Center For World Mission 1997� written in the link above as well)
Islam is a religion that cannot co-exist with others. Muslims are about 24% of world population (data from 2003) or 19.9% according to the CIA World Factbook, and they are responsible for most of the terror attacks and �freedom wars� world wide.
Islamic groups around the world start as very small and poor groups, soon enough they build mosques and start getting money from many sources. In a short time they gain in number and power and start asking for independence or special rights (Spain, Russia, France �).
World War 3 will be a civil war dyed with religion and patriotism. This war will not be the same like the wars the world had known before, but a war where all the nations of the world will unite against the cancer that has started eating bits and bits of their country and soul; Islam.
Christians all over the world help Islam spread in many ways. First they give them shelter and food, being the Christians they are, they support helpless Muslim newcomers. Christians buy the products Muslims offer, they empower Muslims by giving them jobs or making their business successful. Moreover, governments gives stage to Islamic education in schools, being the �democratic� countries they claim to be, Europe and the USA risk the minds and souls of their youth by allowing Islam to �spread the word� and by eliminating proper Christian education in schools (empty minds are like white paper, you can write anything on it).


Yes there is what to do.
1- Educate those who surround you for Christ and Christianity, specially your children and young brothers, they are the easiest targets for the Islamic brainwash.
2- Support your Church and those who are part of it in all ways you can. (Not all people have money to give, but everyone can help somehow.)
3- Do not support Muslims in your country � Why buy products from Muslims when Christians sells them? Why give a job to that soon to become your enemy when your Christian brother is unemployed and willing to work?
4- Pray for those Muslims and try to guide them to the Lord. The Lord is merciful, and He loves them just as he loves you. I am a godfather of a Muslim young man who found the Shepherd. Believe me this is just as rewarding to you as a Christian as it is for that person who finds the light.
5- DO NOT use violence. Violence makes Islam more powerful. Islam relies on violence and wars to spread. DEATH is the most sacred thing Islam offers, Jesus is the God of LIFE and LOVE � death is only a phase we were in before we knew the Lord.

To those who argue that Islam worships the same God we do I would like to say: Please read more or consult someone who really knows both religions well. Just to raise the issue and to make a point: the god Islam worships is a false god, a Muslim man will say �Sala allah alayhi wasalam� after saying the name of Mohammad. Translating that to English (and Arabic is my L1) it means: �god pray on him and submit.� (pray to whom? Submit to whom? Pray for himself or for Mohammad? Submits to Mohammad or for himself?) And a god who offers 72 virgins to the souls of those who die for him cannot be our Almighty God. Our souls are part of God � so if our souls are interested in any way in 72 virgins, God may as well be interested � if our souls are not pure then the Lord is not as well � Thus, the god Islam follows is not our God.

I have often thought that if Christians had not been so busy fighting and undermining each other, Islam could have been defeated centuries ago. I don't buy the argument that we worship the same god, no matter the importance of anyone who held that view. I think we will have to fight that religion for our survival at some point, barring some miraculous divine intervention that converts them to Christianity. But I do think the Church needs to get its own house in order - fast!

The Catholic Church teaches that Muslims indeed worship the God of Abraham. This does not mean it is not mixed with error, but there you are...
-Daniel, who gets tired of reiterating this Catholic teaching

This is what I am trying to determine. Does the Catholic Church officially and doctrinally teach that, or was it a personal opinion of our late Pope JPII? I am pretty sure many previous popes might have disagreed that we worship the same god.

This is my own imperfect insight. Because the Muslims are the children of Abraham through his illegitimate union with Hagar,(Ishmael) the bloodline is metaphorically impure or possibily subject to some adverse principle from the beginning. Can a scriptural scholar help me out here?

I do not mean to offend, only to establish a scriptural relationship between Christianity and Islam as foes. This relationship can probably be traced throughout salvation history, even to the end.

Peace in Christ, Tammy

We worship the Triune God. Islam explicitely rejects the Trinity. We do not worship the same God.

It staggers my mind to think that it is being taught otherwise (if in fact that is the case).

Dear Friends,

I too believe that the Christian God is unique - we worship the Holy Trinity.

In fact, many Muslims are taught Christians are polytheists.

And did not Abraham himself, when he greeted the Lord under the Oaks of Mamre, greet Three Men?

Alex

From the CCC

"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind�s judge on the last day" (CCC 841).

Now before we start screaming...

This Rock July-August 2002 [catholic.com]

This is an article by Jimmy Akin about Islam. He goes over the Churches teaching along with the documents of Vatican II that cover this.

One of the points he makes

(1) They "profess to hold the faith of Abraham." The operative word here is "profess"�they claim to hold the faith of Abraham. In reality, their faith is an imperfect version of the faith that comes from Abraham, but they are trying to follow in the footsteps of Abraham, and the Council gives them credit for that.

Go read the article, Jimmy is pretty reliable.

John

I could never accept CCC 841 and the explanation given seems rife with contradictions.

Andrew

Dear Andrew:

Your statement is not fallacious because you are Orthodox, at least a catechumen.

No. 841 is a part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Amado

Worshipping the same God and understanding God in Trinity are two separate issues and should not be confused.

We have always acknowledged that Christians and Jews worship the same God, despite the fact that the Jews do not know Him in Trinity because they do not accept Christ. Because they have an imperfect understanding of who God is does not mean that they worship a different God.

Islam is similar in that Muslims have an incorrect and incomplete understanding of who God is. This does not mean that they therefore worship a different God. It means that they do not know the God they worship and have made erroneous conclusions about Him.

It should be noted that while we acknowledge that Muslims worship the same God that we do (even if they have a very poor understanding of Him) we are obligated to share the Good News of Jesus Christ with them.

That we can agree on.

Does anybody know what, if anything, St. John Damascene might have written on this topic (i.e. the God of Islam)?

Dear Administrator,

My only point is the issue of tact, for want of a better term.

I interact with people of all sorts of religious backgrounds. I even help organize events at which their religious rites are performed.

I tell them that I'm a Christian and I try to reflect Christ in my behaviour toward them, in prayer and humility.

How could I share with them the Good News in that context beyond and above this?

And how, in general, is the Good News shared - do you mean in what I've understood to be the Protestant manner of "Hey, are you saved?" (I'm oversimplifying to make a point, if you think I have . . .)

Could we talk about how the Good News is shared in different contexts?

And I'm assuming we're agreed that the mode of sharing differs with context.

Your servant,

Alex

I can accept 841 with the explanation or modification of it in 844.

"In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator..."

Alex,

There is no one-style-fits-all approach towards evangelization. The very best way to evangelize is to simply treat each individual as if he was Christ, so your approach is right on target. When others see your love for Christ reflected in your striving to live out the Christian Life they will be attracted to it and become interested.

The workplace is no different than any other non-Church setting. If you are responsible for organizing events at which non-Christians conduct their religious rituals I�m sure that you already treat them with the utmost respect.

Evangelization in the workplace can take many forms. It can include the Monday morning discussion of what went on over the weekend (when you talk about how the youth spent Saturday morning organizing pantry boxes for the less fortunate in the neighborhood of the parish) or the item in the news that prompts a discussion about religion (where you matter-of-factly mention that Christians believe A for reasons B, C and D). If such discussions ever make someone uncomfortable then usually it means that you�re coming on too strong and need to back off.

But this is off topic. Maybe it would be better for you to start a new thread �Evangelization in the Workplace�?

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