www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall World War 3 - only a matter of time: Islam (Opinion)

Why?

Muslims can't be faulted in believing in a hell. I don't think the Chinese do.

If one believes in a hell, one may fall prey to creating a hell on Earth, hence, suicide bombers and Western soldiers in Iraq.

The Chinese are more likely to take over economically, not militarily.

Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ emptied and closed hell down nearly 2000 years ago. Yes, let's be bold in preaching this, bold indeed! grace and peace, wg

One of Muhammed's favourite wives was Christian, Alex!

I dunno Goose; Stalin didn't believe in hell and he did a pretty good job of recreating one on earth...
- Daniel, who doesn't see how free will can exist without the possibility of hell

Dear Wild Goose,

Yes, an Ethiopian one at that.

The Ethiopian Church also honours both Moses and his African bride who they say was Ethiopian . . .

Alex

I worry only about the Muslims. Being Diaspora Chinese and visiting China several times a year, I suspect I know the Chinese mindset far better than most Americans.

I say quite categorically that if the USA minds her own business with regards to politics, she has nothing to fear from China. Economically, the Chinese are going to overtake the USA - there's no doubt about it and it's inevitable.

However, if America continues to meddle in Chinese internal affairs, the Chinese will be fully justified in responding appropriately. Specifically, I speak of America's continual support for the renegade province of Taiwan. Taiwan is Chinese territory - no ifs or buts about it, and Chinese both at home and scattered abroad are sick and tired of American support for an independent Taiwan. If push comes to shove and America gets embroiled in a war, she will only have herself to blame if China defends her territorial integrity.

Having said that, I stress the point that the General's comments were his own opinion, and that the Chinese Ministry of Defence has issued public statements distancing themselves from his comments.

IMO, just another of the
Novel Teachings of the post-
conciliar Catholic Church..........

antonius
(disclaimer-speaking only for myself)

Dear Edward Yong you said:

" Taiwan is Chinese territory - no ifs or buts about it, and Chinese both at home and scattered abroad are sick and tired of American support for an independent Taiwan. If push comes to shove and America gets embroiled in a war, she will only have herself to blame if China defends her territorial integrity."

I say:

I find what you say very threatening. Has China taken into account what the people in Taiwan want? There is such a thing as being loyal to one's friends.

Now I know quite well what the Western powers have done throughout the past decades and centuries. China is not the only place.

The Middle east had it's lines drawn in the sand, and the Balkans and Eastern Europe had their lines, etc., etc. India and Pakistan are divided and I could go on and on into Northern Ireland and Cyprus.

England made a policy of helping different parts of similar people become economically superior in order to keep them separate, and no doubt Taiwan is a modern day example. Yet for the Chinese to insist on expanding it's boundaries to include all Chinese speaking people puts them back into the 19th century and it's age of nationalism.

Well we saw the result of that in the two World wars and the millions that died in Europe, Africa and Asia. You say you love China, is that what you want for them?

Besides aren't we the one's that buy Chinese goods? Frankly, I think it's better if we concentrate on spreading the 'Good News', so the problem of Taiwan can solve itself through the inner peace and enlightenment of our Lord. Much better than war!

Actually if America didn't believe in that she would have taken control of the world after the Second World War. She didn't! Instead she helped and is still helping the world get on it's feet. Bless her, don't curse her.

Zenovia

Dear Zenovia,

with all due respect,

It *was* meant to be threatening. The general feeling in Taiwan is that eventual unity with the mainland is inevitable and the wisest thing. The pro-independence segment is a loud and very vocal minority, while the current pro-independence President of the pseudo-government of Taiwan is nothing more than a lapdog of the United States. It's not a nice thing to say, but it's true.

This is not about expansion - it's about recovery. Whenever China was weak, the first province to get taken over or signed away in unequal treaties was Taiwan. If the current government allows Taiwan to go independent, she will be overthrown by her own people, so strongly do they feel on the issue ('eck, I'd go help them).

A country does have the right to defend its territorial integrity - particularly when the province/state in question is a historic sticking-point. I recall the last time some states in the USA tried to secede in 1861, you chaps had something called a Civil War.

Taiwan is part of China, and the dispute is an internal matter, in which America has no right or business to meddle.

How would *YOU* like it if China kept encouraging the Hispanic population of Miami, New Mexico, California and Texas to force those states to go independent and become satellites of Mexico? The same feeling that true Americans have when they think of the phrase 'Remember the Alamo', all true Chinese have with regards to Taiwan.

Yes, America is a huge market for Chinese goods, even with the unfair trade biases and policies.

Peaceful re-integration will happen if America doesn't stick her spoon into someone else's soup and stir up trouble. It is unfortunate that the country that helped so many economies at the end of WW2 is right now the main destabilising factor in Asia.

Right now, the main reason Taiwanese may be hesitant about unity is a matter of finances - we Chinese describe it as 'the son pretending not to recognise the father on the street, ashamed of his father's poverty'. The truth of the matter is that Taiwan knows she cannot continue if China turns her back on it - China's economy will overtake Taiwan's in about ten years, and Taiwan will be begging to return. Peaceful re-integration is inevitable.

Well, for a start, she couldn't take over the world. I don't think anyone wasn't completely tired at the end of WW2 and in a position to do that.

Much of the world was extremely grateful to America for economic help in the 50s and 60s, which generated much goodwill. However, in the last decade or so, this goodwill has been effectively neutralised by American interference in the affairs of sovereign nations, toppling popular governments in order to install puppet rulers, encouraging terrorism and separatism. Examples are aplenty and do not make for edifying reading. Shall I bring up the 1893 overthrow of the constitutional government of the Hawaiian Kingdom by the United States?

Unfortunately, most Americans, while of the utmost goodwill, are not aware of their government's foreign policy, and have the illusion that 'we're the good guys... why do they hate us?' .
God bless America - she needs it.

In all honesty, I can't blame the people of
Taiwan for not wanting to be swallowed up by
a godless Communist dictatorship.............

antonius

Luckily no one has to assent to the ideas expressed at Vatican II about the Muslim religion.

That being said, the fact that Islam teaches a form of monotheism is a "natural" good, and this "natural" good should be used by Christians as a helpful tool when evangelizing Muslims. But that one "natural" good does not mean that there is anything supernatural about the Islamic religion, nor does it mean that Muslims worship the one true God; since, based upon their own "scriptural" texts, they clearly do not know Him.

The duty of bringing Muslims, and all other men, to faith in Christ remains the primary task of the Church until the Parousia.

The "ideas expressed at Vatican II" about Islam have been reiterated by every subsequent Pope, giving them considerable weight. As Islam is based at least in part on Jewish and Christian influences, it cannot be dismissed as a purely natural religion; Muhammad was exposed to revealed truth, which is part of his message, albeit mixed with error.
-Daniel

It amazes me how eager we are to build up our enemies. We gleefully buy that Saudi oil instead of actually developing alternatives. Purchasing those Chinese goods has helped to update the Chinese military which not only threatens Taiwan - which I understand came about when the losing side in the Chinese civil war fled there - but eventually it's neighbors. Leave that Chinese stuff in Wal-Mart and Target and shop elsewhere. Sure it costs a little more, but I buy American goods whenever possible and consider the extra cost worth it.

Five Popes subsequent to Vatican II,
260 Popes before. I'll go with the
teachings of the 260...............

antonius
(speaking only for myself)

There is a tendency to regard Vatican II as some new expression of Catholicism that is the end-all and be-all of what the faith teaches. How will history view this council? That's impossible to predict. I remember reading that there was a council some years before Trent that was supposed to address the problems of the Church and clarify its positions regarding Protestantism. That council did such a horrible job that Trent had to be called to re-do the work of that council. Vatican II did bring the Church into the modern world and reached out to others. But I think some of its documents are starting to look like products of their time and are already dated. But I will say that I believe in instances where Vatican II differs from previous popes and councils, it is likely that Vatican II is in error. Not everything produced by that council is an article of faith. It seems to me that much of what was produced by Vatican II deals with internal disciplines and rubrics within the Latin Church.

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Be Thou King of all those who are still involved
in the darkness of idolatry or of Islamism and
refuse not to draw them all into the light and
kingdom of God............

Pope Pius XI
Feast of Christ the King
December 11, 1925

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