www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Party in Hell 6-6-06

This was one of the stories on CNN this morning. It must really be a slow news day.

Party in Hell 6-6-06 [edition.cnn.com]

Father Anthony+

I grew up about 50 miles South of Hell. I don't know if that makes my home town better or worse than Hell. They have a run there called, you guessed it, "The road to Hell" which I almost ran in my better days. Sadly, I've never seen the town. I wish I could get up there for the sixth but the next time I'm in the area I'm going over there. It's the only place in which I can't give them hell but maybe I can get refueled. :p Just kidding.

CDL

I read an article by a Greek Orthodox priest who said that when the time comes for the Anti-Christ to manifest himself that the world will be so depraved that the actual number 666 will be used because the people then will love the shock value of it. Kinda like what we are seeing in this day and age to a lesser extent.

When I was in my rock band stage, I knew a few people who were satanists. I didn't associate with them after I found out though; for obvious reasons. There was one guy who I was (am) afraid of, he doesn't look scary but he has an evil presence about him. I think when he was in prison something happened to him. (He was in for petty theft.)

Very interesting observation by the Greek Orthodox priest. For the record:

The Mark, the Name, the Number of the beast
Pundarika is given in english exact transliteration for the Greek. Hammelek el Israel (king of Israel), the name or title, that in all probability, the Antichrist will claim for himself, is given in English exact equivalent for the Hebrew.

The Cosmic Christ � Cosmocrator and the fruits of that bad tree
P U N D A R I K A
80+ 400+50+ 4+ 1+ 100+10+ 20+ 1=666
Note: pundarika in Sanskrit (the above English and Greek are direct transliterations letter for letter from the Sanskrit) is literally �the great white dragon in the abyss� which is the core and basis of the whole esoteric tradition, priesthood, and the dainichi nyorai (the head of the diabolic trinity of the dragon in Buddhism). The dainichi nyorai is also the exact very basis for their magic/sorcery with it�s six elements they manipulate. Elements here are exactly the stoichea in Col. 2:8.

(Note in the below that the Hebrew characters normally read in reverse order than the English letters)
Hammelek l Yisrael
H M L K L Y S R A L
5+ 40+ 30+ 20+ 30+ 10+ 300+ 200+ 1+ 30 = 666



Originally there were in ancient religion four elements (fire spirit water earth) with spirit deleted by the pagans and air and then also and/or aether inserted. These were variously identified with the visible planets and gods/goddesses of the pagans. The order was also rearranged variously and finally a sixth element was added: universal mind (just as the heretical interpretation of Jesus Christ as the impersonal word of God, instead of enhypostasia which is correct that Jesus Christ is the Person-al Son and Word of God incarnate). Finally language was seen as the mystical means of connecting with the powers of the gods/goddesses (actually Satan and the other fallen angels and the demons [demons are, according to the Church Fathers, the non-human souls of the pre-flood nephilim]), and with that alpha-numeric theosophies, namely Hebrew Gematria (Greek and Roman variations are Isopsephia) were especially used. These connections were for the sorcery/magic astrological control over the elements (Greek � stoichea) and even other men. Trigrams, pentagrams, hexagrams et al were symbols used inconjunction with this. The final Mark of the Beast will not be accidental or co-incidental. The final mark of the Antichrist (the Beast) will be willful knowingly on purpose representation of the damned individual�s name by gematria/isopsephia spelling of his name to equal 666. He will seek to impress this knowingly on all men. All who knowingly take it will be irrevocably damned.

In some Latin Bibles the number was 616 for Nero's name.

Caesar Neron (the Latin for his name) is 666 in Hebrew and not 616. In the Greek it isn't even close to any of it. St. Augustine records this opinion about Nero as coming from a pagan legend about Nero and not what the sacred text means.

The transcription error in some bibles is explained by St. Irenaeus:

St. Irenaeus Against Heresies Book V

�Others then received this reading without examination; some in their simplicity,� from the below text; this is where some of the Latin copyists made their mistake and got 616 instead of the correct 666 for the number. The full consensus of the Church Fathers and Theologians have always made it unambiguously clear that the number is 666.

CHAP. XXX.-- CERTAIN AS TO THE NUMBER OF THE NAME OF ANTICHRIST. ANTICHRIST'S REIGN AND DEATH.

1. Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies(3) [of the Apocalypse], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end),--I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.](4) Others then received this reading without examination; some in their simplicity, and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious number. Now, as regards those who have done this in simplicity, and without evil intent, we are at liberty to assume that pardon will be granted them by God. But as for those who, for the sake of vainglory, lay it down for certain that names containing the spurious number are to be accepted, and affirm that this name, hit upon by themselves, is that of him who is to come; such persons shall not come forth without loss, because they have led into error both themselves and those who confided in them. Now, in the first place, it is loss to wander from the truth, and to imagine that as being the case which is not; then again, as there shall be no light punishment [inflicted] upon him who either adds or subtracts anything from the Scripture,(1) under that such a person must necessarily fall. Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against.
2. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. This, too, the apostle affirms: "When they shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction shall come upon them."(2) And Jeremiah does not merely point out his sudden coming, but he even indicates the tribe from which he shall come, where he says, "We shall hear the voice of his swift horses from Dan; the whole earth shall be moved by the voice of the neighing of his galloping horses: he shall also come and devour the earth, and the fulness thereof, the city also, and they that dwell therein."(3) This, too, is the reason that this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which are saved.(4)
3. It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfilment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved. For if there are many names found possessing this number, it will be asked which among them shall the coming man bear. It is not through a want of names containing the number of that name that I say this, but on account of the fear of God, and zeal for the truth: for the name Evanthas (E<greek>U</greek>AN<greek>Q</greek>A<greek>S</greek>) contains the required number, but I make no allegation regarding it. Then also Lateinos (<greek>L</greek>ATEINO<greek>S</greek>) has the number six hundred and sixty-six; and it is a very probable [solution], this being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For the Latins are they who at present bear rule:(5) I will not, however, make any boast over this [coincidence]. Teitan too, (TEITAN, the first syllable being written with the two Greek vowels <greek>e</greek> and <greek>i</greek>), among all the names which are found among us, is rather worthy of credit. For it has in itself the predicted number, and is composed of six letters, each syllable containing three letters; and [the word itself] is ancient, and removed from ordinary use; for among our kings we find none bearing this name Titan, nor have any of the idols which are worshipped in public among the Greeks and barbarians this appellation. Among many persons, too, this name is accounted divine, so that even the sun is termed "Titan" by those who do now possess [the rule]. This word, too, contains a certain outward appearance of vengeance, and of one inflicting merited punishment because he (Antichrist) pretends that he vindicates the oppressed.(6) And besides this, it is an ancient name, one worthy of credit, of royal dignity, and still further, a name belonging to a tyrant. Inasmuch, then, as this name "Titan" has so much to recommend it, there is a strong degree of probability, that from among the many [names suggested], we infer, that perchance he who is to come shall be called "Titan." We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign.
4. But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But now as "he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition,"(1) as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that "many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."(2)

The Hebrew name, in my first post on this topic, that I quoted is from Fr. Sloet of Holland (well over a century ago); who on this subject has the respect of serious scholars. His reasoning on using Hebrew for "King of Israel" is quite convincing. In the rebuilt temple that St. Irenaeus mentions above, it will have to be an apostate (from God) Jew who will be received as an earthly Davidic messiah that the Jews (who would not and still do not accept Jesus Christ) will receive as their (false) man-god earthly king in Jerusalem. They have plans even now for the rebuilding of this temple. Fr. Sloet even tells us that for the spelling to be exact, the kaph (k) will have to be medial indicating temporary, just as St. Irenaeus tells us the Antichrist's reign will be - see above passage from St. Irenaeus. Also, Jerusalem today is the porn and new age capital of the world. A very correct description of Babylon typologically speaking. I set no dates, but it behoves us to be aware of this.

Thank you for bringing this aspect to our attention.

Best regards,
Steve

6-6-06 is not 666; it is 6606, or even 662006, so yeah....

People are reading waaaaaay to much into it. There are even these billboards all around with the date and everything. It says the "signs are all around you." Well of course they are because the billboards are everywhere.

Only if all the money people put into such billboards, radio ads, etc. went to the truly needy. Same with the whole Left Behind book series. The newest one is 666, I believe. :rolleyes:

And the end of the world won't happen either on June 6th, 2006 because no one really knows the hour, time, place, etc.

How upside down this whole world is....

-uc

Fascinating sign of our times. In ridiculing the doctrine of hell aren't they really ridiculing the doctrine of salvation from hell and death? In ridiculing the number 666 in sacred text aren't they really ridiculing the Parousia of Christ in the future? -- since Jesus Christ will come again, in the same flesh He ascended in, after the Antichrist and destroy that evil genius. And in all of this ridicule don't we see the result of what Pope St. Pius X warned about in his encyclical? See below:

PASCENDI DOMINICI GREGIS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS X
ON THE DOCTRINES
OF THE MODERNISTS

Agnosticism its Philosophical Foundation

6. We begin, then, with the philosopher. Modernists place the foundation of religious philosophy in that doctrine which is usually called Agnosticism. According to this teaching human reason is confined entirely within the field of phenomena, that is to say, to things that are perceptible to the senses, and in the manner in which they are perceptible; it has no right and no power to transgress these limits. Hence it is incapable of lifting itself up to God, and of recognising His existence, even by means of visible things. From this it is inferred that God can never be the direct object of science, and that, as regards history, He must not be considered as an historical subject. Given these premises, all will readily perceive what becomes of Natural Theology, of the motives of credibility, of external revelation. The Modernists simply make away with them altogether; they include them in Intellectualism, which they call a ridiculous and long ago defunct system. Nor does the fact that the Church has formally condemned these portentous errors exercise the slightest restraint upon them.

I think, Fr. Anthony, you are really warning us about the scoffers that St. Peter warned us about:

2Peter 3:
v.3 � Knowing this first: That in the last days there shall come deceitful scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 Saying: Where is his promise or his coming? For since the time that the fathers slept, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they are wilfully ignorant of: That the heavens were before, and the earth out of water and through water, consisting by the word of God:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of the ungodly men.

Thank you for repeating the warning. We really are to watch. That is not the same as saying that since the Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night that we are to pretend that of course it can't happen now, not in my life, not when I have plans for the future...as C.S.Lewis said, sardonically, "why! certainly God wouldn't be so unreasonable, would He?!" but of course we know that it is us who are unreasonable and never the Almighty.

God bless,
Steve

Father, Father,

Are you still here? Does this mean that we've been Left Behind?

CDL

CDL you going to Hell anytime soon. Weekend maybe for old times sake? I seem to recall we went through this in 1966 as well. All the 6's lined up.

Since I'm left behind I'll be going there whether I want to or not. I think I'll check out Hell, Michigan this summer. I wonder how hot it is?

CDL

Dear Dan,
Why would you to to Hell in Michigan for vacation. You should go to Hell in the Grand Caymen islands. It is much nicer.

-Katie g

I didn't know that there was a Hell there. I'll have to check it out someday.

CDL

But, you have to use a handbasket to get there!

Aren't they celebrating 13 days early?

GOARCH is new calendar for fixed feasts, so you can't hang that one on Fr. Anthony.

Dn. Robert

But I say to you.

They had a big church building on the order of the size of Hagia Sophia or St. Peter's Basilica or the National Cathedral.

They had a God given liturgy.

They had a covenant with God.

They had direct revelation from God.

They were known as the children of God.

They had a commission from God to tell the world about salvation.

They had Jesus Christ in the very midst of their congregation.

They had miracles performed by God for their deliverance.

They claimed they could never fail.

They said they had the true, that is, the "Orthodox" religion.

They had a priesthood that offered the sacrifice and arrogated to themselves the forgiveness of sin even when God's standards for that weren't met.

They sacrificed their children to moloch, as if they could do such a thing with impunity, despite the horrific murder that it is.

They were judged by God and found wanting and their gifts were taken from them.

Sound like the children of Israel? Maybe.

I think it sounds like the church of today On the Verge of Judgement.

Steve there is one flaw in your reasoning.
And it is this, unlike the people of Israel, "the Church of Jesus Christ is infallible" the gates of hell no matter how hard they try, no matter what the devil's furry against it, his plans and actions will come to naught and the Church will stand victorious, because Christ has triumphed. We have Christ's promise and his word is true.
Stephanos I
PS That reminds me! Maybe we should have a posting on Ecclessiology, so many Amercans have a false understanding of what the Church actually consists of. Most think it is some mere social organisation like any other institution.

THANK YOU Stephanos I. I think to many forget they are on the winning side. All that doom and gloom about the Muslims or the evangelicals and yet as you say the Church WILL prevail.

First of all, the Church has never declared the Church as infallible. Second, infallible is not the same as impeccable. Third, the Church has never declared that membership in the Church automatically means one is saved.

First, doctrinal statements declared ex cathedra expressing teaching, exactly, of sacred tradition, are alone, canonically, infallible statements of doctrine. That is the only infallibility.

Second, you are confusing infallible, which means without error in doctrine, with impeccable which means sinless. Only the Blessed Virgin Mary has been declared impeccable � that is without sin.

Third, you and your, and anyone else�s for that matter, Church membership doesn�t mean you or they are saved.

Jesus Christ said:

Mt 12:
v.50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, that is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.(DRV)

Lk:6:46:
46 And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say? (DRV)

Mt:7:
21 � Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
24 Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock,
25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these my words and doth them not, shall be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand,
27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall thereof.
28 And it came to pass when Jesus had fully ended these words, the people were in admiration at his doctrine.
29 For he was teaching them as one having power, and not as the scribes and Pharisees.
(DRV)

All the ancient Creeds declared that Jesus Christ was coming again to judge all men, including those with Church membership and that judgement would determine whether they were saved or damned.

ST. IRENAEUS 180 A.D., AGAINST HERESIES, BOOK I CHAP. X. - UNITY OF THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH
THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD.
{ note that St. Irenaeus is the first to record the creed later called the apostles creed � with a lot more than we usually see }

I. The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith; in one God, the Father Almighty, Creator, Framer, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents and the birth from a virgin, and the passion and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [future] parousia from heaven in the same flesh in which he suffered, in the glory of the Father, �to gather all things in one,� and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, �every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess� to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send spiritual wickednesses,� and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning of their Christian course and others from their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory.

2. As I have already observed, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although scattered throughout the whole world, yet, as if occupying but one house, carefully, preserves it. She also believes these points of doctrine just as if she had but one soul, and one and the same heart, and she proclaims them, and teaches them, and hands them down, with perfect harmony, as if she possessed only one mouth. For, although the languages of the world are dissimilar, yet the import of the tradition is one and the same. For the Churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor those in Gaul, nor those in the East, nor those in Egypt, nor those in Libya, nor those which have been established in the central regions of the world { Jerusalem, the mother of all the Churches is here referred to }. But as the sun, that creature of God, is one and the same throughout the whole world, so also the preaching of the truth shineth everywhere, and enlightens all men that are willing to come to a knowledge of the truth. Nor will anyone of, the rulers in the Churches, however highly gifted he may be in point of eloquence, teach doctrines different from these (for no one is greater than the Master); nor, on the other hand, will he who is deficient in power of expression inflict injury on the tradition. For the faith being ever one and the same, neither does one who is able at great length to discourse regarding it, make any addition to it, nor does one, who can say but little, diminish.it.

3 It does not follow because men are endowed with greater and less degrees of intelligence, that they should therefore change the subject-matter of the faith itself, and should conceive of some other God, besides Him who is the Creator, Framer, Maker, and Preserver of this universe ( as if He were not sufficient for them ), or of another Christ, or another Only-begotten.

�while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.

(Pg.) 332 T&T Clark Erdmans Edition; See also CCEL On Line

(Pg.) 497 Ibid

Book 4 Chapter XXVI Section 4. Ibid
Concerning how we act towards heretics (the Gnostics who claimed that they were beyond God�s judgement)
From all such persons, therefore, it behoves us to keep aloof,�but to adhere to�the doctrine of the Apostles.

Jesus Christ, Himself, taught us that we must obey His commandments and do the works He commands and not do evil. Jesus Christ also taught, that if we do not, He will eternally damn anyone who does not, whether or not they have Church membership.

John 8:

41 You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded and came. For I came not of myself: but he sent me.
43 Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word.
44 You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
45 But if I say the truth, you believe me not.
46 � Which of you shall convict me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me:
47 He that is of God heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God.
48 The Jews therefore answered and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered: I have not a devil: but I honour my Father. And you have dishonoured me.
50 But I seek not my own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 � Amen, amen, I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death for ever.

1Peter:4:

17 For the time is, that judgment should begin at the house of God. And if at first at us, what shall be the end of them that believe not the gospel of God?
18 And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

John 5:

26 For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given to the Son also to have life in himself.
27 And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is the Son of man.
28 Wonder not at this: for the hour cometh wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God.
29 And they that have done good things shall come forth unto the resurrection of life: but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.

Hieromonk Elias,
My thoughts exactly. Some of us may indeed get to witness this event twice this year.

Steve, you presume much as to what I mean.
I am after all quite theologically educated.
And by the way if you look at the scriptures you will most certainly see that the Church is impeccable. (People are subject to sin, the Church is not!) It is in the words of scripture pure, spotless, blameless, holy.
Stephanos I
When a person sins they sin as a person, not as the Church.
I still maintain many have a distorted ecclessiology in this country.

Dr Eric,
Actually you are quite right as to the meaning of the text as it stood historically. The variant 616 was another recogning of Neron Ceasar one according to Hebrew and one according to Greek.
Rev 13:18 had several variant forms both adding up to the number of Neron Ceasar,a symbol for the ungodly emperors.Nero died on 9 June 68 AD from a mortal wound to the head. Vs 16-18 can be seen to historically co incide with the practice of handing out a libelus to those who would worship an image of the Emperor by offering incense.
Thus the emperors spoke blasphemies declaring that they were gods to be worshiped.
Stephanos I