Originally posted by Stephanos I:
...unlike the people of Israel, [b]"the Church of Jesus Christ is infallible" ...[/b]
First of all, the Church has never declared the Church as infallible. Second, infallible is not the same as impeccable. Third, the Church has never declared that membership in the Church automatically means one is saved.
First, doctrinal statements declared ex cathedra expressing teaching, exactly, of sacred tradition, are alone, canonically, infallible statements of doctrine. That is the only infallibility.
Second, you are confusing infallible, which means without error in doctrine, with impeccable which means sinless. Only the Blessed Virgin Mary has been declared impeccable � that is without sin.
Third, you and your, and anyone else�s for that matter, Church membership doesn�t mean you or they are saved.
Jesus Christ said:
Mt 12:
v.50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, that is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.(DRV)
Lk:6:46:
46 And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say? (DRV)
Mt:7:
21 � Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
24 Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock,
25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these my words and doth them not, shall be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand,
27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall thereof.
28 And it came to pass when Jesus had fully ended these words, the people were in admiration at his doctrine.
29 For he was teaching them as one having power, and not as the scribes and Pharisees.
(DRV)
All the ancient Creeds declared that Jesus Christ was coming again to judge all men, including those with Church membership and that judgement would determine whether they were saved or damned.
ST. IRENAEUS 180 A.D., AGAINST HERESIES, BOOK I CHAP. X. - UNITY OF THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH
THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD.
{ note that St. Irenaeus is the first to record the creed later called the apostles creed � with a lot more than we usually see }
I. The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith; in one God, the Father Almighty, Creator, Framer, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents and the birth from a virgin, and the passion and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [future] parousia from heaven in the same flesh in which he suffered, in the glory of the Father, �to gather all things in one,� and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, �every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess� to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send spiritual wickednesses,� and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning of their Christian course and others from their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory.
2. As I have already observed, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although scattered throughout the whole world, yet, as if occupying but one house, carefully, preserves it. She also believes these points of doctrine just as if she had but one soul, and one and the same heart, and she proclaims them, and teaches them, and hands them down, with perfect harmony, as if she possessed only one mouth. For, although the languages of the world are dissimilar, yet the import of the tradition is one and the same. For the Churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor those in Gaul, nor those in the East, nor those in Egypt, nor those in Libya, nor those which have been established in the central regions of the world { Jerusalem, the mother of all the Churches is here referred to }. But as the sun, that creature of God, is one and the same throughout the whole world, so also the preaching of the truth shineth everywhere, and enlightens all men that are willing to come to a knowledge of the truth. Nor will anyone of, the rulers in the Churches, however highly gifted he may be in point of eloquence, teach doctrines different from these (for no one is greater than the Master); nor, on the other hand, will he who is deficient in power of expression inflict injury on the tradition. For the faith being ever one and the same, neither does one who is able at great length to discourse regarding it, make any addition to it, nor does one, who can say but little, diminish.it.
3 It does not follow because men are endowed with greater and less degrees of intelligence, that they should therefore change the subject-matter of the faith itself, and should conceive of some other God, besides Him who is the Creator, Framer, Maker, and Preserver of this universe ( as if He were not sufficient for them ), or of another Christ, or another Only-begotten.
�while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.
(Pg.) 332 T&T Clark Erdmans Edition; See also CCEL On Line
(Pg.) 497 Ibid
Book 4 Chapter XXVI Section 4. Ibid
Concerning how we act towards heretics (the Gnostics who claimed that they were beyond God�s judgement)
From all such persons, therefore, it behoves us to keep aloof,�but to adhere to�the doctrine of the Apostles.
Jesus Christ, Himself, taught us that we must obey His commandments and do the works He commands and not do evil. Jesus Christ also taught, that if we do not, He will eternally damn anyone who does not, whether or not they have Church membership.
John 8:
41 You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded and came. For I came not of myself: but he sent me.
43 Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word.
44 You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
45 But if I say the truth, you believe me not.
46 � Which of you shall convict me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me:
47 He that is of God heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God.
48 The Jews therefore answered and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered: I have not a devil: but I honour my Father. And you have dishonoured me.
50 But I seek not my own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 � Amen, amen, I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death for ever.
1Peter:4:
17 For the time is, that judgment should begin at the house of God. And if at first at us, what shall be the end of them that believe not the gospel of God?
18 And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
John 5:
26 For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given to the Son also to have life in himself.
27 And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is the Son of man.
28 Wonder not at this: for the hour cometh wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God.
29 And they that have done good things shall come forth unto the resurrection of life: but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.
