www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall I want to be an illegal alien.

Me too! Me too! ROFL
Indigo

Oh please.

Yes, illegal aliens get some breaks. They have a pretty harsh life, too. Yes, we have a problem. Yes, it needs a solution. Having a third world country on our border with people who are desperate for a chance at better, and making stronger borders to keep them "where they belong" is not a good solution for either side, though. The answer is much more complex and requires some give and take on both sides.

1. Illegal aliens are a boon to the government because we don't have to pay for any of their unemployment, worker's comp, or retirement benefits. As a matter of fact, many of them pay for ours.

2. Illegal aliens are a boon to the government because they work low skill jobs for low wages that US workers are unwilling to do, which makes our economy and therefore the worth of our dollar, more. This has such a huge effect on how prosperous our country, and therefore we, are that the government will not even consider solutions in the vein of "just send them all home."

3. Illegal aliens are a boon to the government because many of them pay taxes out of their pay checks when they work over-the-table jobs with falsified social security numbers. The SSA tried to crack down on this some time back when they realized how much money they have pooling up and going back to our government, and it caused such confusion and a mass exodus of workers that the SSA officially stopped trying to deal with it and just gives the money back to itself. It is those illegals who won't have a chance of seeing the SS benefits who are making ends meet at the SSA with the otherwise poor retirement planning in our country where there are too many retirees and not enough workers to pay for them. Further, you can't complain that the illegals aren't paying taxes then also complain that someone is trying to get them to pay taxes. Where's the carrot to make them legal? They don't pay taxes for two years, but then they and their children do for the rest of their lives. Or, they don't pay taxes for the rest of their lives. Which sounds better to you?

4. Have you ever been to a low-income clinic? The level of care is not exactly something you'd want your child to receive on a regular basis. If you do, go work a manual labor job all day for almost no money and you will qualify for this "fantastic benefit" of Medicaid as well so that you and your family can enjoy its benefits. For instance, a person with an ingrown toenail usually has it surgically removed under anaesthesia. One without insurance has a dremel tool taken to his foot while awake and in the doctor office. Further, it is in the best interest of our country that anyone in our country receive minimal preventative medical care (such as immunizations) to avoid the costs of reactive medicine later.

5. The life of an illegal immigrant is not a walk in the park. It usually consists of physical labor in temperature extremes day in and day out (and often times a second and third job to boot) just to get food on the table. It also means one is susceptible to blackmailing (a great position especially for young women to be in). Medical care is almost non-existent and is largely limited to the most primitive needs. Diets consist of almost nothing and are usually of very poor quality because there is no money for fresh fruits or veggies or milk or quality meat. Added to the physical strain of their employment, the emotional strain of being always on the run and susceptible to emotional and physical threats, and the lack of quality health care or housing, makes it a pretty crappy life. Getting a scholarship for an illegal alien is a joke. Have you seen the rates of international fees for colleges? If this were so, why aren't our colleges full of minorities? The reality is that colleges have to throw huge carrots out there to get the small minority populations they do. College is a luxury that most minorities simply can't afford, especially illegal immigrants. Their children being legal citizens is of huge benefit to them in this regard.

So what makes them willing to go through all of this, knowing it could all be lost in an instant? Their lives in Mexico were worse is why. Why are their lives in Mexico worse? Let's remind ourselves.

The US at one time owned all of Mexico. We took the land we wanted and found that the land below Texas was so barren that it was actually a drain to us and not a benefit. So we gave it back to the Mexicans and gave them sovereignty over the land as well. That meant they had to take the negative drain and we didn't. So the people have no natural resources (only recently discovering pockets of oil) and have endured several corrupt governments (which we did nothing about). I know of a town which is feet from the US border and has historically had a wonderful working relationship with the Americans on the other side. They bought their groceries in the American town and even received their electricity from us. This was all legal and payed for. After 9-11, the Border Patrol (doing their job, which I do not blame them for) cracked down on it. The Mexicans could only enter the US through the legal checkpoint several hours away. They were an isolated village, in the mountains and far removed from inner Mexico. They would be required to drive a rugged and dangerous path down the mountain, several hours through the country, several hours back through the US, and then repeat it all in reverse, all for a jug of milk. Their electricity was cut off. The young people all left. All that remained were the elderly without medical care or electricity. A truck bounces into the village once a week with groceries, blankets, and such at extortionist rates that the elderly cannot pay for. Their lawful employment (a hotel, a bar, a restaurant, a tourist gift shop, and so on) now have zero revenue. And who do you think is paying for this? US! The Americans are the ones making the trek to get their friends and neighbors the supplies and medicines they need. Before, we were benefiting far more than them financially. Now we are losing revenue. Yes, actual revenue lost, decreased tourism to the US side, because of the crack down on the "illegal" aliens who bought their groceries and medicines from us. Having a third-world country on our doorstep is not something we can ignore like it doesn't affect us. Disparity breeds contempt. Contempt fosters crime.

We have to do something to end this cycle. Giving them a rather insignificant carrot to get them legalized is, in my opinion, a wonderful idea. I don't much care for arguing over the particulars of how it should happen as I believe well-learned men can disagree on such an issue as it has no "right" answer. But ignoring the issue and making such a mockery of the life of an illegal alien as if it is something you want when the reason they are able to make it is because we Americans don't want their life, is of no benefit to any of us.

AMEN , WOndering, AMEN! Let's just remember that many of those "illegal immigrants" are the most devout Catholics you are ever likely to meet!!!

Did the original colonists who came to North America have permission from the tribal councils of the native Americans to come here? Or were they th eoriginal 'illegals"?

I grew up along along the TX-Mexico border. I'm sure most of you have heard the perjorative term "wetback" for an illegal alien from Mexico. Among Latinos there was the term "salt water wetback"...our people swam a river to get here, your people had to swim an ocean!

Bigotry has no place on a Christian forum. Also, if you read what Holy Scripture says about hospitality to the alien, you will find that hatred towards the stranger is condemned by God.

Who is being a bigot? This was a funny letter I found on the internet that speaks of a real truth. The truth being you can get rewarded for breaking the law, and the truth is that we have just found a legal tax loop hole.

Since public schools are so anti-Christian today as a parent I have to send my children to Catholic school. Tuition is so expense that I can't afford Catholic school. If I had a nice tax break then I think I could afford public school. Perhaps this is a solution.

All satire is not bigotry. I see no bigotry in what Ray has posted. False claims of bigotry (and similar) are often a tactic to shut down discussions. They will not work here.

It is very fair to point out that in some places those who come here illegally are treated better than those born here who have always followed the law. The issue is certainly a complex one.

Let�s remember that Pope John Paul II taught both that 1) we must show hospitality and charity to those in need and that 2) countries have a right to secure their borders.

From a personal perspective, I think the answer here is not to abolish the borders and legalize those who come here illegally. We simply cannot take in all the poor from everywhere in the world. And let�s not forget that about 10% of those entering illegally are criminals in their home countries.

The answer, in part, must be to cajole the other nations of the world to engage in reform to raise the standard of living in those countries so that their people do not have to come here illegally in order to survive.

Sure, you can be an illegal immigrant.

However, before you can receive the official status, you have to comply with the following:

1. Leave your spouse and children behind, in your country of origin.

2. Live sharing with strangers an overcrowded room, in an overcrowded house.

3. Renounce the possibility to be at your parent's side at the time of their death. You will receive a phone call telling you they are very ill, but you will not be able to go because you would not be able to come back.

4. Live constantly looking over your shoulder to see if the immigration authorities are coming after you.

5. Accept an extremely hard job at minimum wage or less.

6. Become unable to get credit, purchase any kind of insurance or have a driver's license.

7. If you evenutally decide to risk the lives of your spouse and children by bringing them to this country (just as you risk yours), accept that they will be placed in "special programs" with the excuse they need to learn English. What that means is that your children will "learn" English INSTEAD of the "other stuff" (such as Math, Science, Art, etc.).

8. If, with all the "help" from the education system, your children still manage to graduate from high school, accept that their education is done at that point. I do not know where you're getting your information from, but here in California, illegal immigrants are treated as any other alien, that is, State and Community colleges charge them non-resident fees, which are prohivitive even for families with decent incomes (let alone yourself, who with your 3 jobs barely make it above the 0% tax bracket).


Sure, you can be an illegal immigrant. Thank you for your solidarity.

Shalom,
Memo

Memo,

Thanks for your post. I agree that the life of an illegal immigrant is not great. Please realize that the United States is not the evil here. The real evil is the countries where life is so horrible that the poor conditions the illegals encounter here are a great step up. I�m always amazed at how everyone condemns the United States as evil and then remains silent on the real cause of the problem.

We�ve already discussed this at length. My proposal was to 1) secure the border, 2) 2) double or triple legal immigration rates, in a manner where we can keep out the violent criminals and allow in those seeking a better life (but who are not fleeing the authorities in other countries) and 3) cajole the nations people are fleeing from to reform so that their people don�t have to leave to have a decent life. That, I think, is a very Christian approach.

I thought the letter was great satire. Locally, in Maryland, there is a proposal to give �in state� tuition to those here illegally while continuing to deny it to those who are here legally! Is it really fair to penalize those who follow the law and reward those who break it? The answers to these questions must not include discrimination against those who follow the rules.

John / Admin

Hi,

Indeed, but I would focus on 2 and 3 first. That is, be instrumental in providing ways to people to either stay in their countries of origin, or come here in a legal and orderly way. Once that's done, yes, get tough on the border (but I know you and I disagree on how tough, so let's not go there).

Well, that is nonsense. I would say the fair thing to do is to provide "in state" tuition to residents of that state, regardless of immigration status. State residency can be defined in terms of income and/or property taxes paid to that state.

Shalom,
Memo

I don�t think you can focus on 2) (doubling immigration rates) and 3) (cajoling nations to reform) without first fixing 1) (securing the border).

The �immigration reform� signed into law by President Reagan 20 years ago in reality tripled the number of people coming into the United States illegally. It sent the message that there was little or no penalty for coming here illegally. Enacting ways for illegals to become legal before securing the border will only encourage a new and massive wave of additional immigration (so they can qualify for whatever amnesty might be offered to those already here before the borders are secure). It will also encourage those companies which take advantage of illegals to continue doing so since there will be a continued source of cheap labor. The first thing to do is to secure the border (pass the House bill). After the border is secure we can then decide how to address the issue of the illegals who are already living here.

Regarding tuition and other such things, I would not grant any favoritism towards those who are here illegally. Once the borders are closed and we address item 2) above then we can offer such luxuries to those who move from illegal status to legal status. State residency must include being in the United States legally. I hope that you are as vocal about item 3) to those in authority in other countries as you are here about items 1) and 2).

That�s the whole satire of the original post. A U.S. citizen could not get away with what some of the proposals are offering to illegals. More should be asked of them in exchange for legal status, not less.

You've provided the solution to the problem- legalize their status and they wont be eligible for the "offering to illegals."

Father Deacon John,

There is nothing new in my position so I�m unsure of your comment.

If we secure the borders and weed out the dangerous criminals among those here illegally we can find a way to grant legal status to those illegals who desire it. There would need to be some appropriate penalty for coming here illegally and we could in no way put them ahead of those already waiting to come here legally (they often also live in horrible conditions in their home countries). In short, those who come here illegally need to have more hurdles to get over then those who followed the law. This is only logical and not unchristian at all.

If we don�t first secure the borders it does not matter what we do because people will continue to come here illegally in huge numbers (including those who wish us harm). The need to offer hospitality does not eliminate the right of a state to control its own borders and keep safe its citizens.

Admin / John

Dear Friends,

Until the U.S. can secure its corporations against the cheap labour of illegal immigrants, they will keep coming.

As your Lou Dobbs on CNN is wont to discuss, it is corporate America that is the problem, that is selling out its own country and its workers.

That's the more difficult problem to solve and your politicians, especially the Bush Administration, just don't have the political will to do it.

Don't blame the illegals.

Alex