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Of course we're all welcome to proclaim our personal opinions, Dr. Roman.

After all, the root of the word "American" -- and that includes all us North Americans -- is "I can!"


--tim

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Dear Neil,

Yes, a compliment!

("Kyiv" is the standard English spelling that the Canadian government now employs on the urging of the Ukie government - doesn't the USA have diplomatic ties with Ukraine and, if so, wouldn't there be a protocol involved as a result? I don't know . . .)

And it's the "Republic of Eire," right? I refer to it as "Holy Ireland." wink

I'm going to take some courses on internet usage and hope to, one day, approximate your skills if only a little bit!

God bless and Happy Columbus Day!

Alex

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Dear Tim,

Ultimately, we weren't there! wink

And, again, it isn't all that important.

I met a homeless person today whom I almost missed assisting due to my slowness in responding to their need.

I know you will agree that that is much more important!

(He says, "hi!") smile

Alex

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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Tim,

Ultimately, we weren't there! wink

And, again, it isn't all that important.

I met a homeless person today whom I almost missed assisting due to my slowness in responding to their need.

I know you will agree that that is much more important!

(He says, "hi!") smile

Alex
One way to try and dismiss someone who questions your unsubstantiated points is to show that you have far more important things to do, like helping the homeless.

--tim

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Quote
Originally posted by Tim Cuprisin:
Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
[b] Dear Tim,

Ultimately, we weren't there! wink

And, again, it isn't all that important.

I met a homeless person today whom I almost missed assisting due to my slowness in responding to their need.

I know you will agree that that is much more important!

(He says, "hi!") smile

Alex
One way to try and dismiss someone who questions your unsubstantiated points is to show that you have far more important things to do, like helping the homeless.

--tim [/b]
For goodness sake -- is it possible to stop all this sniping at one member by another ?

Gentlemen - they talk about women doing this sort of thing - can we please call a halt to it here ?

Anhelyna - who will now stand back , cower and receive all the brickbats that will be coming her way.

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Dear Tim,

I apologise if I in any way offended you or gave the impression I was dismissing things.

I thought we had already settled to agree to disagree on that matter.

As for the unsubstantiation thing, it would certainly not be the first time I have been accused of concocting something without substantiation here.

Perhaps you shouldn't impute motive - at worst, that might indicate you are of Ukrainian, rather than Ruthenian, background! wink

I listed some authors above where I have read about the issue raised. You may choose to believe that they are phantom authors or that I'm lying to prove a point of some sort or else am promoting an agenda of kinds.

Again, I've been accused of that here on everything from Pope Innocent III teaching the three-fingered Sign of the Cross to a number of other, shall we say, "out of the ordinary," matters, privately and publicly.

I simply affirm that there is substantiation, it is not in English (as far as I know) and that there are other theories in this regard as well.

What triggered my interest is the notion concerning how a term that is interpreted to mean "borderland" got to be so popular among a people when that term was most often used to denigrate that same people by various empires.

There are historians, such as Maksymovyc and also linguists that he and others quote who have studied not only the difference in spelling between similar terms, but also the ancient meanings of the term. And it is this that I've read.

Again, it is not my opinion (I do tend to agree with this perspective, but my ethnic identity does not hinge on whether "Ukraine" means "borderland" or not - in fact, all my life I was taught it meant "borderland.").

My point is that it's not worth arguing over.

Yesterday, God did allow me to cross paths with a homeless individual. All I said was that THAT experience was more important than any debate on the Byzantine Forum over:

* borderlands

* rosary/Rule of the Mother of God

* Filioque

* ritual issues of various kinds

* etc.

My intent was not to dismiss you or the issue. My intent was to, in a sense, dismiss the immediacy of that and other issues that often preoccupy ME on the forum and elsewhere.

I'm wrong to allow myself to be preoccupied with them and to be oblivious to what is more important.

That has to do with me, not you, not the Administrator, not anyone else.

You want Ukraine to be "borderland?" Fine, so be it!

People here want to call the capital of Ukraine "Kiev" - how am I going to "enforce" any other spelling? By throwing a hissy fit and say I'm not going to be on the forum, only to return a few months or weeks later?

I'm done doing that, thank you very much - another waste of emotional energy.

You don't believe there is substantiation for any other view of "Ukraine?"

Look, friend, I know people who deny that praying 150 Hail Mary's is an Orthodox practice even after I've shown them the way St Seraphim of Sarov prayed his Rule.

So what am I going to do to change their minds when they won't be changed? I'm not going to worry about it - whether I've been charitable is what I should be worried about and this, in no way, is meant to "blow off" those good-intentioned Orthodox Christians who believe as they do about the rosary.

But if you believe that that is what I'm doing by raising the issue of charity in that context, that is fine as well.

I have many faults and sins.

God only knows . . .

I apologise for having given offense to you and I'll do what I should have done when the Administrator first suggested it to me - I'm going to leave this matter alone for good.

Anyone is free to respond to this post here, but I won't be saying anything further by way of later rebuttal.

No one is angry with me when I'm quiet, after all!

I wanted to thank my mentor, Anhelyna, as she has always given me excellent advice and counsel and I'm sorry that my predicament here made her feel compelled to step in when I know she was not comfortable doing so.

Forgive me, Anhelyna! (And, yes, I do know that "Angela" and "Anhelyna" mean EXACTLY the same thing - "Angel" - no argument on that score!)

Alex

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smile smile smile smile

Nowt to forgive Alex - let 'Normal Service' resume
biggrin

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GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE US HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, SO THAT WHOEVER BELIEVITH IN HIM SHALL NOT PARRISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

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Quote
Originally posted by Pani Rose:
GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE US HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, SO THAT WHOEVER BELIEVITH IN HIM SHALL NOT PARRISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
Shall we now get into a discussion of the proper spelling of 'perish'?

Tammy

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Originally posted by Tammy:
Quote
Originally posted by Pani Rose:
[b] GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE US HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, SO THAT WHOEVER BELIEVITH IN HIM SHALL NOT PARRISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
Shall we now get into a discussion of the proper spelling of 'perish'?

Tammy [/b]
Half my kingdom for a spell checker. biggrin It's so easy to dash things off when you really don't have the time to go back and check spelling. And these cursed-by-all-that's-holy bifocals don't help matters any. wink Pani Rose has such a good heart, I can easily contend with any incorrect spelling on her part. BAD SPELLERS OF THE WORLD UNTIE!!! biggrin

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Dear byzanTN,

That post was not intended as a stab at Pani Rose. Rather it was offered as a commentary on how trivial the arguments get, that we can spend several pages quibbling about spelling.

Tammy

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Originally posted by Tammy:
Dear byzanTN,

That post was not intended as a stab at Pani Rose. Rather it was offered as a commentary on how trivial the arguments get, that we can spend several pages quibbling about spelling.

Tammy
Oh, I know. I never thought it was a stab at Pani Rose. If you really want trivial arguments, try "Kiev," a perfectly good English spelling. It's quite common for foreign place names to be Anglicized and have different spellings in English. But you would never know that, would you? biggrin

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But, Kiev sounds NOTHING like the Ukrainian...Kyiv does wink

Gaudior, now hiding lest the wrath of our beloved Admin fall upon me

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Originally posted by Gaudior:
But, Kiev sounds NOTHING like the Ukrainian...Kyiv does wink

Gaudior, now hiding lest the wrath of our beloved Admin fall upon me
I know, and it's probably written in the Cyrillic alphabet and is totally unreadable to us English speakers, anyway. My only experience with Ukrainians is one family that did come to our church, since we were the closest thing around to the Ukrainian church they were from. They actually were wonderful people, but I had difficulty understanding them sometimes. I mean no disrespect, but they really did sound like Boris and Natasha in the Bullwinkle cartoons.

Charles,
hiding out with you in the caves of Kiev biggrin wink biggrin

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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
"Kyiv" is the standard English spelling that the Canadian government now employs on the urging of the Ukie government - doesn't the USA have diplomatic ties with Ukraine and, if so, wouldn't there be a protocol involved as a result?
Alex,

Yes, the US does have diplomatic relations with Ukraine. The State Dept. "Fact Sheet", however, lists "Kiev" as the capital, as does the CIA's equivalent (one CIA site offers "Kyyev" as an alternative, cross-indexed to "Kiev"). The State Dept.'s does say:

Quote
Cities: Capital--Kiev (often transliterated as Kyiv from Ukrainian, pop. 2.8 million). Other cities--Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Odesa, Lviv.
See:

US State Dept. Background Notes - Ukraine [state.gov]
CIA Factbook - Ukraine [cia.gov]

I think the problem here is probably that the Ukraine government doesn't have an "official" English transliteration of Kyev's name - just as I suspect that there is no "official" Ukrainian transliteration of Washington. Transliterations are in the ear of the beholder and at the mercy of his/her pen and, thus, unlikely to be given "official" notice.

Quote
The United States Board on Geographic Names (BGN) is the interagency board established by public law to standardize geographic name spellings for use in U.S. Government publications.
The BGN lists only "Kiev".

Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
"Kyiv" is the standard English spelling that the Canadian government now employs on the urging of the Ukie government
I'd say that they haven't lobbied the right folks here then.

Many years,

Neil, who himself henceforth only uses "Kyev", even if the CIA rips out his fingernails with pliers eek


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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