www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Tours of Eastern Catholic homelands

All,

Before we go thru this pain again, for the benefit of those who missed last Fall's illuminating :rolleyes: discussion (which of course also had its origins in a discussion of Ukraine vs. the Ukraine ) as to the instances in which one does or does not use "the" before a geo-political placename, this is the basic rule:

Before anyone brings forth any seeming contradictions or exceptions to the above, or any examples that they feel aren't explained by the above, please see the original thread in which a number of other instances (e.g., The Philippines, The Gambia, etc. were also discussed and explained.

Many years,

Neil

So, I take it that no one else has information to share about their travels to eastern Slovakia, western Ukraine, northwest Roumania, and southwest Poland? All things come to him who waits, or so the saying goes, I think.

Is that like the meek shall inherit the earth - they are too cowardly to refuse it?

Oh, you mean we can get back to the topic, now. Gee, thanks!

I was in Ukraine in August of 1991 with a Ukrainian youth group (Plast - Ukrainian Scounting). The group was made up of half Americans and half Ukrainians.

We started in Kyiv and made our way West. In Kyiv the Churches were museums and, honestly, they felt like museums.

Two weeks later we were in Lviv - the last leg of our trip.

It was what would turn out to be the last weekend before Ukraine declared its independence. Of course, we knew nothing of the planned coup against Gorbachev that was being planned in Moscow.

Anyway, the plan was to "rough it" that Saturday evening and camp out under the Castle at the village of Olesko. Being one of the older males and wanting to play the hero , I volunteered to take a shift on "watch."

Mine was the second or third, I can't remember. The shifts before me, however, didn't bother to go to sleep.

To make a long story short, by the time dawn broke there were maybe 12-15 of us sitting around a fire, half of us from the free world and the other half growing up under Soviet Communism, sharing experiences and talking about the changes going on in the world.

The best word I can use for that night is magical. The setting was perfect: the moon, the stars, the sillouhette of the Castle above us and a crackling fire. Add to that a group of bright, young, spiritual and forward-looking young adults - sharing hopes and dreams for the future of an emerging nation and a better world.

When morning came, it was time to drive to Lviv for the Divine Liturgy at St. George's Cathederal. The place was packed by the time we got there.

So, there we stood, dead center in front of the Church, in our scout uniforms, double rank and dead center in front of the Cathederal, listening to the glorious singing being broadcast through loudspeakers outside.

Slowly, it began to sink in that we were witnessing the re-birth of our Church - the Church of our forefathers. Tears were prominant, even when we tried to stand at "strunko" for the reading of the Gospel and the Anaphora.

Priests came out to us with the Holy Gifts, so we did not get a chance to walk in until after the DL.

Once inside, it was too much, especically when I thought of my grandfather who was ordained there fifty+ years earlier at the hands of the Servant of God Met. Andrej.

As we emerged, people began to surround us and asking questions or who we were and where we were from. All of a sudden, it was like 15 or 16 little press conferences.

Generally, people were amazed that we spoke Ukrainian and that there was an established Ukrainian Church in North America. They asked about life in America, our schools, our society, etc.

They explained that if they did not have family in the West, they knew nothing of the world outiside the USSR because everyone was afraid to say anything.

Members of the older generation who belonged to Plast in the 20's and 30's could not stop telling us of their utter joy and astonishment when they first saw us in uniform coming up St. George's hill.

We left waving to them out the windows of our tour bus.

Probably the most memorable 24 hours of my life, no kidding.

Yours,

hal

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

In 1995, I went to the village where my father's paretns were born and raised. I had made contact with relatives a couple of years before hand and remained in touch.

I arranged for them to pick me up on Saturday morning and to spend the weekend with them. We walked through the village and my cousin explained how the villagers had hid partisans during the War and how the village had been occupied by the Nazis and then burned to the ground for hiding Partisans. She also talked about how the next door neighbor had been shot by a "liberating-Soviet soldier" because she refused to take off her silk blouse. The "soldier" shot and killed her and took the silk blouse complete with bullet hole and bloodstains...

On Sunday morning, we went to the Greek Catholic church for Divine Liturgy. We had heard the church bells earlier in the morning. As we walked up the hill to the church, I could the women of the village chanting the Rosary and then they began to sing the Marian hymns.

As I sat in the balcony before Divine Liturgy, the Cantor came up to me and asked me to come with him. My cousin's husband nodded for me to go with the Cantor. He took me to the front of the balcony, handed me a book and told me to sing.

I found a Marian hymn that I knew and let loose.

Needless to say, the heads in the church turned to see who was singing. I could see the tears in my cousin's eyes and when I looked at the Cantor, he had tears streaming down his face. He later told me that since I was from America, he thought that I had forgotten the hymns and the Divine Liturgy...

As I talked with the priest after Divine Liturgy, the "ushers" came in all excited that someone had left a 500 Korun note in the collection plate (500 Korun at the time was about $10 American). That's when I realized that it was me they were talking about. The rest of the congregation had only left 5-10 korun coins in the collection... opppsss.... yes, I did leave a donation in American dollars too....

marko

Dear Friends,

My Godson's parents just returned from Ukraine and brought some devotionals from the Kyivan Caves Lavra for me!

I can't wait to see those wonderful people, er, to let them know I missed them terribly, of course!

To think they brought those items all the way from Kiev/Kyiv when they were in the Ukraine/Ukraine.

They tell me a favourite currency over there is that of the New England Colonies/United States of America.

God bless you all.

Alex

Dear Friends,

FYI, according to the Carpatho-Rusyn historian, Prof. Paul Magosci, the term "Ukraine" is not descended from the word meaning "borderlands."

In fact, this great non-Ukrainian scholar shows that the word is descended from the term "to cut out" and refers to the struggles that the people of the steppes engaged in to maintain their land free from constant invasion.

As for whether Americans care about Ukraine or any other culture other than their own, I agree with ByzanTN that they do not.

But one cannot care about something or not unless one has an inkling about it first.

Most of the world, from what I've seen in my travels alone, feels that Americans wouldn't know "culture" if it jumped up and nailed them in broad daylight.

Have a nice day!

Alex

What nations say that about America? I am just curious.

Hmmm, must be that pious association of immigrants on our northern border. I understand they have a highly developed degree of culture. It's French.

The Ukraine in the sunset
Red Ukraine in the sea
Send Kievan emigrants
to French Canady

Dear Anthony,

I apologise, I shouldn't have said that.

But neither should those who made what appeared to me to be disparaging comments about Ukraine.

I have always defended, I believe, the right of all peoples to be free and to be called what they themselves wish to be called, whether they are Ukrainian, Carpatho-Rusyn or whatever.

And I have always defended the USA, even when it wasn't popular to do so in a number of contexts I was involved in.

I read some of the comments here and I didn't like them.

All I'm saying is that we are all in a precarious position when it comes to others acknowledging us and liking us for what we are.

I apologise if I was too harsh.

God bless America!

Alex

Actually, Magocsi, on P. 171 of "A History of Ukraine" writes that while the root of "Ukraina" comes from the Indo-European root "krei," defined as "to cut"; the word "simply means an undefined borderland" in its early uses.

--tim

Dear Charles,

If you think that only the French and the "Kievans" think that way, you should get out more.

And I don't think anyone is particularly disturbed by what Americans think about this or that cultural group.

Again, try to get out more and see for yourself.

Alex

Alex, when I was getting my Master's in Music, the texts contained nothing on Eastern music. The textbooks were all about Gregorian chant and Western music. It's like that in other fields, as well. My degrees in Sociology, Education and Library Science never mentioned anything Eastern. The same for literature and history electives. The West knows very little about that part of the world, and during the communist regimes, most of Ukraine and nearby regions were closed to outsiders. The only area mentioned in the news was Russia, and it was usually something negative.
I think years of communist rule did make the entire region somewhat backward. It certainly didn't do it any good. So do you really wonder at the fact that most Americans know nothing about Ukraine - add Eastern Europe, and anything Byzantine to that, also.

Dear Charles,

Oh, all right I'm sorry.

Forgive me.

Alex