www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Cleaning House!

I ran across this wonderful website which works to get rid of those who wish to destroy the church. Here is part of there philosophy:

"While we accept the authority of the Holy Father and all bishops in union with him, we will not sit idly by, nor blindly follow, while many in the hierarchy allow the Holy Catholic Church to be torn apart and assaulted by the forces of Modernism, Syncretism, Heresy, and the gross immorality of some of its clergy. As parents and teachers, we will not allow our Catholic youth to be robbed of their faith or have their innocence destroyed in the name of "tolerance", "ecumenism", "diversity" or any other politically correct ideology of the day. "

Apparently, they have had much success in getting rid of many Bishops who should never had been ordained. See here: http://rcf.org/campaigns/springfield/index.htm

Here: http://www.rcf.org/docs/cawcutt_resigns.htm

And Here: http://www.rcf.org/campaigns/index.htm

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Also, see the MOST EXECELLENT WORK they are doing here: http://rcf.org/press/releases/1999MAY11POSTCARDCAMPAIGN.htm ****************

I was wondering if there is a similar organization trying to "Clean House" the Eastern Rite churches?

I Have Been Given A New Hope!

[ 08-11-2002: Message edited by: ExRomanCatholic@Work ]

They sound very scary to me...the (un)Holy Inquisition lives! When do the heresy trials and burnings begin? God save our Eastern Churches from such as that! Moe

moe,

How can you say that? The Church is so corrupt right now! I can't believe you can't see that! Perhaps if read about the comments by South African Bishop Reginald Cawcutt made it would change your mind. Before he was exposed Bishop Cawcutt spoke about "Killing Cardinal Ratizenger". In addition, he spoke openly about supporting "Gay Marriage". I could go on and on. This man was a close as you could get to a Satanist. If his personal webpage was not so filled with GRAPHIC sexual images I would post it for you on this forum.

You just dont know! There are so many Bishops just like him in the Church.

God Save Us!

ps. here is a quote from Bishop Matthew Clark's Homily--March 1, 1997 at the Sacred Heart Cathedral (Transcribed)

"Because I'm afraid the bible is used in ways that are not life-giving, but destructive as it's quoted about gay and lesbian people. I think we need to learn from the human sciences the research of which has yielded a lot of new information that I believe we have not as yet integrated into our knowledge and value systems and which we do not appreciate as elements which can alter honestly held but incorrect assumptions about other persons in our community."

"I can't tell you the number of letters I have received from priests who say they are gay, but who are afraid to come out. What a loss that is to our church," said auxiliary Bishop Thomas Gumbleton of Detroit.

[ 08-11-2002: Message edited by: ExRomanCatholic@Work ]

I want to say as a Catholic I am VERY hurt about the truth that is the Church today! I can remember as an altar boy a priest asking if I wanted to go his house after mass. Thank God I never went!

The Catholic Church has let me down and I find no peace in the Eastern Churches either. I know of a sexually active Gay Eastern Rite Catholic priest in the southern states right now. He has no will to reform.

I do not want to condemn all priests. The Bible says, "He who can cast the first stone". But, does that mean we should allow the Bishop to continue to destroy the Church?

What about the thousands and thousands of sexually active priest? Should we just turn a blind eye? Yes, priests are humans and they will sin! I sin daily. I have struggled with sins of the flesh. Seems after you get married more women find you attractive. I have never nor God willing ever act on those attractions.

The point is this, I am not any better then any of these priest. My sins are not any less. But! But! I want to reform myself! I do not want to sin anymore. I want Christ to forgive me, and sin NO MORE. However, these Bishops and Priest want to continue living sexually active lifestyles and think nothing is wrong with that. Further, they want to change the churches teaches to say "Its ok". I cannot in good conscience be associated with such a church!

When I tithe I don't want my money going to support a sexually active priest! Further, I do not want my money going to a Gay Activist sexually active priest! Recently, while doing a �Inquisition� I found a newly ordain Gay monk who post on the internet. He states his WHOLE monastery is one big rainbow house! Do you know what that means? I don�t think it is a good thing.

This reminds me of when I went to a wedding recently and my grandfather had a heart attack during the wedding. It looked like at the time he was going to be ok. I stayed because my cousin�s wedding was almost over with. After the wedding I asked the priest if I could use his phone. While I was on the phone the priest was making me feel very uncomfortable by the way he was looking at me. I don�t want to get into details but this drove me crazy. Do these men have NO shame?

Am I wrong about this? Please tell me that all of the Bishops in the Church are not corrupt!

I want to stay Catholic. I want to stay Eastern Catholic but I can not in good conscience tithe to the Catholic Church right now or receive the sacraments from a �Celibate� priest!

The Rigidity and Inquisitional mentality reflected by that site is not consistant with the Ethos of the Eastern Christian Churches both Orthodox and Catholic. The Eastern Church NEVER had the Counter-Reformation and the spirit that developed out of that.

Brian,

I think the facts speak for themselves!

I think your chosen login name speaks for itself. Those who consider themselves EX-Catholics are always free to leave the Church. Do we want to see them go? Not at all, but those who know better than the Bishops should probably be in a "congregational" church that can make its own rules as it goes.

I do not claim to know better than the Vatican II council how to modernize or not modernize the Church. I can see gains and losses in the processes begun there.

I do not presume to know better than the Bishops and Priests how to conduct liturgy. Or how to conduct relations with groups outside the Church.

I'm not sure anything can be gained by endless complaining about how corrupt the Church is today. We are all sinners, the Priests are all sinners in uniform, The Bishops are all sinners in uniform with funny hats.

If you have names to name, the Bishop, the police, and the newspapers are the places to go. If you don't have specific information to add, general attacks on the hierarchy are not going to help anything but the forces of evil working to destroy the Church.

Those who consider themselves EX-Catholics are always free to leave the Church.


I agree.


Have a Blessed Day !!!

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

Slava Jesu Kristu,

I agree, ExRomanCatholic, that this current scandal has affected my Faith in the Holy Church as well. For me, it is not so much that these Priests had same sex attraction but that they allowed themselves to fall into its expressions at the cost of innocent juveniles. Abuse in any form is completely unacceptable no matter the clerical rank or Rite. But, I feel that these were the exceptions and not the rule. As the Holy Father reiterated at the WYD in Canada, the majority of our Priests are good and holy men who obey the Laws and Canons of our Faith both externally and internally. These are the men we should foster and look to for guidance. Sin has rocked the Church for two millenia in both Empires and we will survive this as we have always. As for the Bishops, they have their Salvation to contend with. Those that have abused and knowingly allowed abuse must be held accountable both Civily and by the Church. But, after that, let Holy Mother the Church heal herself.
I can't help but think that after this, the Church will go though a renewal of true Spiritual health. A time of Theosis will envelope the Faithful as we return to a hopefully better acknowledgement of our weaknesses as humans. The Devil seems to like nothing more than a good scandal to cause people to loose their Faith in the Church. However, seminaries will fill again with men who may be weak in the flesh but strong enough in the Spirit to overcome the temptations of the Enemy. This is what I pray for.

Mir s Toboy,
Dmitri

Three Cheers and God bless "Roman Catholic Faithful"! I don't know if this kind of group would be helpful in the Eastern Catholic Churches but I expect it would be. I'm passing this website onto some discouraged Catholics I know.

Dmitri,

Spiritual cleansing usually begins when people are willing to be cleansed. RCF seems to be God's hand to help the cleansing. How different are they from the Prophets? Jeremiah spoke out against the sins in the hierarchy of his time and people wanted to kill him. Was Jeremiah correct or not? There is ample evidence that RCF is correct. Would I rather protect a wayward priest or bishop or our children? Guess what, I side with the children...every time.

Dan Lauffer

I guess this issue is quite simple for me. If a priest or bishop participates in sexual misconduct or abuse is he truly God's shepherd for us? The answer is quite simple. NO, without a doubt! If a bishop protects a priest who participates in sexual misconduct or abuse is he truly a Shepherd? Of course NOT! He should be exposed for the wolf that he is and if his behavior is criminal sent to prison, where he of course can "minister" and be "ministered unto", all he likes. If his behavior is not criminal but it does break his vows and he won't stop then he should be laicized. This is not difficult to understand. No amount of hedging that such discipline is not Eastern will cut it.

Dan Lauffer

Slava Jesu Kristu,

Oh, I am sure that RCF is correct in its evidence. I disagree, however, with its tactics. I also agree with Brian that such publicity is not within the Eastern ethos. Children need protection, but no "witch hunt" ever really accomplished that. I feel we should deal harshly with the bad Priests but not at the expense of the good. Any Catholic who is discouraged should pray for the Church and help clean it from within, not publicise the actions of its sinners thus fostering the idea that the clergy is out of place with modern society. We should be wary of anyone who has contact with our children. The Enemy uses anyone who will capitulate be they Priest, teacher, sitter, or whomever. At least, that is my feeling on the matter.

Mir s Toboy,
Dmitri

Dmitri,

I think I sympathize with you. But where is the line between "witch hunt" and disciplining bad priests and bishops to be drawn?

"Children need protection, but no "witch hunt" ever really accomplished that. I feel we should deal harshly with the bad Priests but not at the expense of the good."

How are good priests to be protected when the bad priests are protected? I have no doubt that for most people, the vast majority, people will give every priest the benefit of the doubt. And if you are correct about RCF being on target in naming the bad ones, then what harm has come to the good ones?

What exactly is a "witch hunt" as it applies to their work or to the work of removing bad priests and bishops from proximity to our children? I haven't yet seen a movement to brand all priests as evil, have you? I think the term "witch hunt" is not applicable to the present situation at all.

Dan Lauffer

Dear ERC,

While I rejoice that you and I can now enjoy full communion in the Orthodox Church, I must tell you that our Church is also dedicated to tolerance, ecumenism, and diversity. In fact, it is ecumenism that bring us together with our Catholic brothers and sisters. For us, it is a source of great joy!

Axios

Wow. One of our posters thinks he's so hot, that he's a threat to the chastity even of committed celibates and presumed heterosexual priests. Gee, could you post a picture of yourself? I'm sure your wife wouldn't mind... :rolleyes:

It's called the sin of PRIDE. And spreading baseless accusations. Repentance -- look into it.

Two Lungs,

[QOUTE] I think your chosen login name speaks for itself. Those who consider themselves EX-Catholics are always free to leave the Church. Do we want to see them go? Not at all, but those who know better than the Bishops should probably be in a "congregational" church that can make its own rules as it goes. [/QUOTE]

As for my position it is better to quote the words of the great Patriarch Tikhon who said in 1920, �In the event a diocese...finds itself completely out of contact with the Higher Church Administration...the diocesan bishop immediately enters into relations with the bishops of neighboring dioceses for the purpose of organizing a higher instance of ecclesiastical authority." I believe in many ways this statement also applies to the laity.

Like St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco said, �The history of the Church shows that there are no replacable persons in the Church, and the Holy Spirit always find a way to fill the ranks...� The Bishops of the church are not irreplaceable if they are the problem then expose them for who they really are!

Further, I recall the first chapter of Galatians in which Saint Paul says, �I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel 7 (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!�

Let me therefore let me stand in anathema! I will not be the first nor shall I be the last. My conscience will no longer allow me to further participate in such a church! I realize that the there is no such thing as a perfect church. Further, I realize that all churches suffer from the same problems as the Roman Catholic Church. However, I also realize that other churches have better ways of dealing with such problems than putting their heads in the sand.

I would return to the Catholic Church if Bishop Pataki and the other Ruthenian Bishops would bring more married priest into the priesthood. To say that they cannot because of financial reason is lie! Most priest of poor orthodox churches here in the States work to support their family. They don�t seem to have a problem. Will this solve the crisis in the Church? No, but it will restore my confidence in the Church hierarchy. It will tell me that they are not sexual predators like the priest, which serve them. It will tell me that they are sincere Christians wanting to follow the teachings of Christ. Finally, it will tell me that they are working for a solution and are not part of the problem.

So, were does this leave me? I cannot receive the sacraments in the Catholic Church. I do not believe in the hierarchy of the Church. Perhaps God is telling the Orthodox Church is where he wants me to go. I don�t know the answer right now but I will pray very hard and will try to shut up and listen to Christ. I am sure if I trust in Jesus he will lead me to himself.


I would never leave the church because of "Modernization", I would never leave the church because of Liturgy changes, and there are many other things I would never leave the Church because of.


Well it seems obvious that many suffer from the psychological illness of denial and their antidote is scapegoating against those who wish to stand up for what is right and just.

But when the doctrine of God's grace has been cheapened by easy forgiveness and too-rapid restoration, it is bound to affect even the Catholic leadership. The Bishop who suffers the same problem as the troublesome priest is the core problem of the Church.

If the Bishop is not guilty of such crimes then He has nothing to fear. One does not have to look hard to find troublesome Bishops and priest. Anybody can go to a Gay Catholic online forum and copy the email address of the posters then do a google search and find that the same email address belongs to your local parish priest! I challenge you try it yourself if you do not believe me.

Why should my money go to priest who wishes to look at gay porn on the churches computer? Why should my money go to support a priest sexual partner living in the parish residence? Why should my money go to support a priest who has a sexually transmitted disease when the priest refuses to reform his life? Especially, a priest who believes he receives special graces from God because he is an active homosexual. How much abuse must the church take before the laity should take action?

No, I am no longer complaining I am leaving!

May God Be With You Always!

[ 08-11-2002: Message edited by: ExRomanCatholic@Work ]