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Originally posted by byzanTN: I actually have seen a gay pride parade in Knoxville. I don't know why they are called "gay," since they seemed like pretty unhappy folks to me. Did you also know that all of them wear khaki shorts?  I went to a pro-abortion march in Washington DC last year to be among the prayerful counterprotestors. many of the pro-abortion marchers were lesbians and gays. And they were lewd. Vicious. They verbally attacked the young girls that were with us. They tried to block and destroy our signs. Ploice had to be stationed every ten feet to protect us from them. We were spat at. Women took off their clothes in front of us, men kissed each other and similated gay sex. And this was not even a "gay pride" parade! Here is an account I wrote: We took a busload of about 35 from our area, and got there Friday night. We stayed at the hotel in Arlington with Randall Terry's Operation Witness group. Saturday morning, we peacefully protested at the Planned Parenthood abortion clinic in DC, then attended talks by Randal Terry that afternoon at the hotel. At 5:00pm, Fr. John Nesbella (from my diocese, mentioned here, http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36109), who organized our bus, said mass in our hotel ballroom (beautiful, reverent mass!!!), with about 75 attending. Then we set up an Adoration Chapel in a hotel room we paid for just for this purpose. We had exposition from 7:00pm til midnite, with approx 60 attending throughout those hours. There were generally 6 to 9 individuals in our hotel room Chapel at any given time, in half hour shifts, praying for the success of Sunday's Operation Witness. It was like a Eucharistic retreat. Father thought of everything...mass kit, monstrance, prayer books for adoration, bullhorn, crucifix, incense, Holy water, everything. On Sunday, we arrived at Freedom Plaza with Randall Terry's group, Operation Witness. Our busload then moved to about 50 feet from the start of the March of Death, across the street from the White House museum/tour center on Pennsylvania Ave. Fr. Nesbella brought a 3 1/2 foot crucifix, and a bullhorn, and I stood behind him with a 4 x 8 foot sign of an 8 week old baby in utero, and we prayed the Rosary and Litany of Life and Divine Mercy chaplet repeatedly for the duration of the march. Many media photographers shot pictures of Fr. Nesbella with his crucifix and bullhorn, but I haven't found any online. I was interviewed by the BBC World Service for their English radio news edition. I've never seen such a mass of angry and hateful freaks and kooks and perverts in my life. As they passed, they were drawn towards Fr. Nesbella and the crucifix. Several girls stopped and removed their tops in front of our Rosary group, with only small pro-abort stickers as "pasties", and gay couples paused in front of us to kiss and grope each other. Others hissed and screamed and spit. Father John simply held forward his hand and made the sign of the cross over them or towards them, at which almost all of them moved on. The DC police in our area were all professional and friendly with us, with one of them even comforting a 13 year old girl from our group holding her own handmade sign, when several lesbians screamed at her they wished her mother had aborted her and she broke into tears. Several pro-aborts complained to the police about our presence and signs, but Randall Terry had reserved the sidewalks on both sides of Pennsylvania Ave for our protest, so we were there with full rights. Apparently the pro-aborts hadn't thought of this, and it really enraged them. What a weekend. Brian
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"Augustine says (De adult. conjug.) that 'of all these', namely the sins belonging to lust, 'THAT WHICH IS AGAINST NATURE IS THE WORST.'
"I answer that, in every genus, worst of all is the corruption of the principle on which the rest depend. Now the principles of reason are those things that are according to nature, because reason presupposes things as determined by nature, before disposing of other things according as it is fitting. This may be observed both in speculative and in practical matters. Wherefor just as in speculative matters the most grievous and shameful error is that which is about things the knowledge of which is naturally bestowed on man, so in matters of action it is most grave and shameful to act against things as determined by nature. Therefore, since by the UNNATURAL VICES man TRANSGRESSES that which has been determined by nature with regard to the use of venereal actions, it follows that in this matter THIS SIN IS GRAVEST OF ALL. After it comes incest, which is contrary to the natural respect which we owe persons related to us.
"Just as the ordering of right reason proceeds from man, so the order of nature is from God Himself: wherefore in sins contrary to nature, whereby the very order of nature is violated, an INJURY IS DONE TO GOD, THE AUTHOR OF NATURE. Hence, Augustine says (Conf. iii. 8): 'Those foul offenses that are against nature should be everywhere and at all times DETESTED and PUNISHED, such as were those of the people of Sodom, which should all nations commit, they should all stand guilty of the same crime, by the law of God, which hath not so made men that they should so abuse one another. For even that very intercourse which should be between God and us is violated, when that same nature, of which He is the author, is POLLUTED BY THE PERVERSITY OF LUST.'
"Vices against nature are also against God, and are so much more grievous than the depravity of sacrilege, as the order impressed on human nature is prior to and more firm than any subsequently established order.
"The nature of the species is more intimately united to each individual, than any other individual is. Wherefore sins against the specific nature are more grievous.
"Wherefore among sins against nature, the most grievous is the sin of bestiality, because use of the due species is not observed. After this comes the sin of Sodomy, because use of the right sex is not observed." [Summa Theologica, Vol IV, Pt. II-II, Q.154 Art. 12]
Thus spoke Saint Thomas Aquinas. [/QB] Great new Avatar, StLouis! It is most appropriate when fighting the Culture of Death 
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Dear Friends,
So far I'd characterize this thread as being about "Vietnam war veterans - nothing to spit at."
Alex
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I'm exposed again as a poor grammarian and a poor speller. But neither excuses adults paradng around and being "LEWD". Nor does my poor grammar give them the right to display sexual activities to my children or before me.
I don't know what can be done about it in a secular society but one cannot on the one hand defend Muslim dismay over our lewdness and at the same time defend that same lewd behavior.
Dan L
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The reviews of Greene's book make it clear that Greene has evidence that it did happen. But the writing, on face value, is consistent with "extremely rare".
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Dan,
I agree, and I don't think that anyone has posted any disagreement that there should some norms of public decency and that such norms should be enforced.
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djs,
So far then we agree. Have you ever seen a gay pride march? Have you ever seen even a glimpse of one on the television?
I had the sad experience of seeing one near Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago and glimpses of same on the television. I have never seen a gay pride parade that wasn't completely lewd. I have never seen any police action against the lewdness.
Dan L
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So far then we agree. Have you ever seen a gay pride march? Have you ever seen even a glimpse of one on the television? Dan, I already spoke to this. I have never been to such a parade, and have only seen presumably sanitized glimpses on TV. Now standards of decency vary from place to place. It may be that what will get you arrested in Knoxville will not in Chicago. And in SF, the local 10km race, Bay-to-Breakers, typically has a streaking contingent. But the lack of enforcement? I don't know whether there is from a lack of complaint, diffidnce by the police, or that complaints have been thrown out of court. And I agree that there is too much sexualized acting out in front of children.
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Dear Professor Dan,
Well, our Catholic Premier attended one such gay pride day - he made a lewd joke about wearing pink underwear for the event . . .
However, the parade does bring in a few millions of tourist dollars to Toronto . . .
Something about "dollar votes . . ."
Alex
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Alex,
Indeed. Dollar politics. That's why Disney World dares to put on a Gay Pride day and why Mayor Daley supports the 2006 Tails on Fire...er, Gay Olympics. Yes, I've seen the pictures on their website advertizing this damnable event...Leap Frog, indeed.
Dan L
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Originally posted by djs:
The reviews of Greene's book make it clear that Greene has evidence that it did happen. But the writing, on face value, is consistent with "extremely rare". djs, Please consider that the editorial writers use of the words �some�, �more� and �many� with regard to the numbers of letters from veterans who experienced mistreatment does not agree with your �consistent with �extremely rare�". Most people think the words �some� means an �unspecified number� and �many� as a �large indefinite number�. I have no doubt that if there had been only one or two out of the more than a thousand letters accounting mistreatment the author (or at least the reviewers) would have indicted such. Methinks your understanding of the terms �some�, �more� and �many� is extremely atypical! As I noted earlier, mistreatment of returning veterans was not normative. But neither was it extremely rare. Admin
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"Father thought of everything...mass kit, monstrance, prayer books for adoration, bullhorn, crucifix, incense, Holy water, everything."
Can I be the only person who is startled by the presence of a bullhorn on that list?
By the way, talk of Liturgy in a Washington hotel room - I'm still recovering from the time, more than 30 years ago, that I was at a Divine Liturgy (for the Liturgical Week) in a Washington hotel in an ad hoc chapel set up for that week. Since it was very early, I was still sleepy, but I was jolted bolt awake to hear the priest intone the petition: "For this holy hotel . . ." No, I am NOT making that up!
Incognitus
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"For this holy hotel . . ." ...Let us pray to the Lord? Hey why not! Alice
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Originally posted by incognitus:
"Father thought of everything...mass kit, monstrance, prayer books for adoration, bullhorn, crucifix, incense, Holy water, everything."
Can I be the only person who is startled by the presence of a bullhorn on that list?
Incognitus Nope - I also thought it was included in a very strange position in the list too. It probably would not have stuck out as clearly if it had been at the end - but it did make me try and envisage Mass being celebrated with the Priest holding onto a bullhorn and that is truly mind boggling Anhelyna
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What the Administrator relates is consistent with my contention that the accounts are anecdotal and long after the alleged incidents. Note that Greene's book counts a full range of negative things, including some that may have existed mostly in the minds of veterans returning from what had become an unpopular war, to more serious allegations of spitting and verbal abuse. I have no doubt that some allegations were false, given human nature. I am not saying that this never happened, only that contemporary accounts do not apparently exist. As the prowar folks were then, as now, not above appealing to "the boys" and the need to be behind them to squelch dissent, why during the war are there no accounts in promilitary journals, the prowar press, etc.?
Again, documentation, from the time of the supposed incidents, please.
-Daniel, still sceptical
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