www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Can we afford "business as usual"?

I had some tea with Father Loya today for about two hours. He told me that the entire BC Church is running on red alert and that he believes Bsp. John knows it and has alerted our priests to it. He cites the newly unserved parishes, including the Cathedral Church. He pointed to the missions and near missions that we unserved. Finally he pointed out that the average age of our priests is 58 with two groups. The young ones are in their late 40's and the larger group in their 70's. Bsp. John called for a focus upon mission and strategic planning. Three lay people from our Church made presentation along these lines. Many laity know this and those that are in business could help us a great deal. Many of our priests seemed out of the loop in this area. Father wonders himself if shortly he won't be asked to serve more than one parish.

The standard model for Church life seems to be maintenance oriented. I've seen this while visiting other parishes in our Eparchy. We also know that our Church has drug its feet in seeking vocations.

Father Loya's observed that the Eparchy is on "red alert" but I wonder if we will do anything about it. Can we afford "business as usual"?

Will we look at options for releasing our deacons to direct mission work while our priests serve on circuits? Will we look at ways to better utilize our laity in helping to start study and prayer groups with the potential of new missions and eventually new Churches? Will we get serious about vocations?

Dan Lauffer

Dan,

I think the Deacons should be asked to continue education and become Priests.Since we are on red alert the education should be brought to them. We need a Seminary on wheels. I'm sure Fr. Loya would gladly give classroom space to acomplish this.In our area there are many get your MS schools on weekends and nights from places like Marquette or Cardinal Stritch.They meet in local hotels and bank buildings. We need to fit what the guys would learn at the seminary into that kind of structure.We need to tap into your skills as a former Minister.We needed to have done that years ago. So we should do it immediately.

Nicky's Baba

Christ is Risen!

Dan, you've hit the nail on the head. Our future hinges on how serious we are about vocations.

We need priests -- married and celibate. Has the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church restored our tradition of married priests? I see conflicting information. I think the new priests that will be called to serve will largely be married. Are we serious about vocations from married men with families? We better be. Without priests we have no Eucharist and no Holy Mysteries to transfigure our lives in the light of Christ.

Can the seminary in Pittsburgh handle married priests and their families? How will we support them? Financially? Emotionally? Spiritually? These days given the way of the world, the depressed economy, etc., I doubt that we'll see men in mass head to Pittsburgh with their families to pursue the priesthood for four to six years. It's unlikely to become reality. Where will they work? How will they support their families? Can we wait for four to six years? How many parishes will die while we wait?

We need ideas and we need to act ...

1.) Nicky's Baba, your seminary-on-wheels idea is great. We could bring the seminary to those called to the priesthood. Perhaps we could also harness the potential of the Internet as a real-time seminary classroom too.

2.) We have a large Eastern Christian population in Chicago. Why couldn't we pool our resources with the other Byzantines in the area?

3.) Can we partner with the Orthodox somehow (unlikely, I know)?

4.) Can current parish pastors take men under their wing and form them as priests? How was it done in the early church?

5.) Are there any bi-ritual monasteries that could help us in the short term. The Benedictines here at St. Procopius in Chicago come to mind. Our priests attended their seminary until 1950.

6.) In general, we need a massive PR blitz to let the world know we exist. It's time to come out from under the bushel basket and return to the missionary ways of the evangelists-to-the-Slavs, St. Cyril and Methodius. We can afford this – PR is free.

These are just some random thoughts that came fast and furious. I'm sure others have ideas too. We need to act. Yes, Dan, we need to get serious about vocations, now!

John, a sinner

I was told that our seminary in Pittsburgh is so tiny staff-wise that it will have a tough time just accomodating the incoming class of diaconial candidates, who are only in residence 2 weeks a year. The implication was that even if there were more candidates, there wouldn't be a way for the metropolia to handle the acute shortage of seminary staff itself. At least the diaconial program is mostly a distance learning program.

A mentoring program with an experienced priest could be designed that would lead to ordination to the priesthood, but it could diminish the opportunities for interaction with a class of candidates and staff. Such a program could also help, however, especially in the area of pastoral counseling.

Meanwhile, I guess it's a good idea to also reclaim our tradition of non-sacramental services.

Jim,

I'm not sure where you received your information about the seminary's having a "tough time" staff wise to accomodate the new cohort of deacon candidates. I'm sure that if the size of its staff was an issue, the PA Department of Education would not have given the seminary degree-granting authority.

Having been a member of the first cohort of deacon candidates and a present member of the advisory board, I have had the unique opportunity to view the seminary from two perspectives. Although, the full time staff is no where the size of even a grammar school, the faculty, administration, students, and volunteers have, IMHO, excelled beyond anyone's expectations with the given resources. Given the caliber of instructors, full time and adjunct, the classroom experience rivals that of any institution. My four summers at the seminary were some of the most faith-forming eight weeks of my life, and I thank the faculty, staff, and my brother candidates for the experience.

Can there be improvements? Of course! The staff has worked to implement the association with Duquesne to grant degrees, and the seminary now has its own degree granting status. This did not come about without the valiant efforts of the staff and others. Improvements are ongoing.

The question of vocations is certainly a cause for concern. All of us look to our hierarchs and priests for answers. Yet, what are we going to do about it. We look for campaigns to advertize the need, but I wonder if that is the answer. If we look to Sacred Scripture, we see that Our Lord called his apostles one at a time. As parents, it is our responsibility to prepare our children to "hear" the calling of the Lord. As parishioners, it is our responsibility to encourage those in our communities that are discerning that call. As the faithful, we have a good notion of what qualities a priest, deacon, monk or nun should have. Look in your own parishes to develop your own "home-grown" vocations. Dare to think that God, if not calling you directly to a vocation, is calling you to seek out those who would make a good candidate for a vocation.

(Fr Deacon) John Montalvo III

(I received the Sacred Order of the Diaconate at the hands of His Grace, Bishop William, on May 3, 2003.)

As I understand it the issue of certification doesn't have much to do with staff size but filling out the appropriate paperwork, paying the fees, having the facility, documenting curriculum and experience of faculty, and considering the current full-time student component of the seminary is fairly small, they probably look good with the student to teacher ratio.

At the Ukrainian seminaries of Stamford, Washington D.C. and Holy Spirit in Canada, they have had married men in residence on and off for twenty or more years.

John,

This is good advice.

"As parishioners, it is our responsibility to encourage those in our communities that are discerning that call. As the faithful, we have a good notion of what qualities a priest, deacon, monk or nun should have. Look in your own parishes to develop your own "home-grown" vocations"

Be assured that we are doing that in the Annunciation parish. We have persons who have expressed serious interest. There are other bottlenecks, it would seem.

Welcome, Father Deacon.

Diak,

I wish the Ruthenians were as courageous and forward looking. :rolleyes:

Dan Lauffer

As far as worrying about what to do ministry- wise after ordination, I think the concern should be about overload rather than underload. West of the Mississippi the people are so spread out and there is so much for a deacon to do.

Jim,

I think someone needs a vision from God. Maintenance ministry will not produce a healthy future or an obedient one. There is plenty to do for every deacon and then some. BTW What numbers are they talking about?

"He is also concerned about available ministries for the candidates, assuming they successfully complete the program."

Moreover, why can't we rejoice that we have a large number of candidates? Why must we always think that we are only an ethnic Church? Why can't we be a Church in truth and become evangelical? Moreover, what is wrong with encouraging some of these Deacons to become Priests? We must stop thinking backward and think forward. As Gretsky would say when asked for the secret of his success let's "go where the puck is going instead of where it's been." A leader does not wear himself out shooting at a target. That's just maintenance. A leader shoots an arrow, draws a circle around the landed arrow and calls the rest of us to shoot at the new target. We don't need maintenance. WE NEED LEADERS. Lord, give us leaders.

Dan Lauffer

Didn't you mean "assisted dying?"

First: Who's we?

Second: Our Church supplies many vocations to other Eastern Catholic jurisdictions and Orthodox communities. Seriously.

Third: My other comments are here: https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000278

Joe

Well, in many Orthodox Churches, most of them, the parish clergy are mature men. This not always means that they lack vocations. Why not trying to strenghten programmes to promote vocations among mature men? (50 or older). Moreover, many mature men feel useless and and priesthood would be a good option for them, and it would give them the opportunity to be a part of the community too (in addition to all the graces and religious values of priesthood). In other countries there are mature men who become priests and most priests are mature (this is in the case where married clergy is permitted like among the Orthodox or the Maronites, but if it's about celibate priests in the USA in the Roman style, they face the same problems that the Roman face.)

Christ is Risen!

Last night I undertook a detailed reading of the latest encyclical from the Holy Father -- Ecclesia de Eucharistia. All of us should read this document to learn what the Eucharist really means for Catholics. There is a link between our current vocations crisis and our general lack of or erroneous understanding of the Eucharist.

At Annunciation, the Eucharist is at the center of our parish. And as a lay person, I clearly see that the Eucharist is at the heart of Fr. Loya's priestly ministry. There is a love for the Eucharist that radiates out from each Divine Liturgy at Annunciation. This love opens my heart to the transfiguring light of Christ's love. Every atom in my being dances during the Eucharist. What an awesome sacrament!

I wonder how our lack of understanding and lack of faith in the Eucharist causes and fuels our ongoing shortage of priests? I think this is really obvious in the Western Church, but I also suspect it plays a role in the East too. Most well educated Catholics I speak to do not have the slightest understanding of the Eucharist. They just go through the motions. The influence of a secular and skeptical America seems to have influenced contemporary Catholic thinking more than the ultimate love Christ shares with us in the Eucharist at each liturgy.

The Eucharist is the center of our faith as Catholic Christians. Unless we truly live “the treasure of the Eucharist” we'll never see the vocations we need. There is no Catholic Church without the Eucharist. The Eucharist calls men to the priesthood. Who will answer?

John, a sinner

Joe,

"Who's we?"

Since this is byzcath.org I thought it was self evident.

Dan Lauffer

Dan,
You seem so angry at everyone and about everything except your own parish and your own pastor. Whence this rage? Surely not from prayer, fasting and the life in Christ. Surely not from the Holy Eucharist.

If "Ruthenians" are cowardly and except in your parish seem to be doing everything wrong, please remind me again why you joined the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church?

And then perhaps you can give me a reason why I, currently having excommunicated myself from the Church, should consider returning to it if I can get my life in order. It sounds to me from your posts that the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church, unless I am within driving distance of Annunciation Parish in Illinois, has nothing to offer anyone.