www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Venting Anger ....

I need to vent some anger at what has been happening in New Orleans with regard to the number of rapes that have occurred in the main shelters. These are not private quarters. Poor women and/or children were being raped among the population there. Why aren't the men there taking these rapists and throwing them out of the facilities (hopefully into the filthy waters where they belong)? I'm at a loss to see why someone doesn't kick the **** out of these preditors!!!!

Rose - I think one should also be asking WHY has it taken so long for concrete help to get there ?

I realise that there are many many problems - but these are human beings who know feel that not only have they lost virtually everything , and in many cases they have , but they also feel that no-one cares.

Hopefully, I'm reading your response wrong. That is NOT an excuse for raping children and women.

(Still angry )

No, of course Anhelyna would not suggest that! What IS being implied is that there are so many things to manage at once that it is overwhelming...and therefore the slime to which you refer have not been properly dealt with.

Gaudior, shocked

Can't think where I stated this was an excuse , but the fact still remains it has taken too long for help to get there.

Many questions remain to be asked and answered about all this.

But yes - you are correct there is absolutely no excuse for rape , but care must be taken that it's the law that exacts the penalty - not the lynch mob.

Here I see what happened and what is happening on Sky TV, CNN, BBC and EuroNews.

It is so shocking. About rapes what could I say? I fear that there are some deep bad roots.

From this part of world I find very improper the way in which the American government reacted to this tragedy.

It is a tragedy for all mankind. It seems that some shodowed matters appeared.

It is almost unforgivable that some troops were withdrawn from Iraqi or Afghanistan for making order home.

It is bitter. Why the major of NO ordered so late the obligatory withdraw, although it was clear that that Katrina leads to LA too? It was there on map provided by sattelites. I hear here that anyway these people are rich, and all will be good for them. Ignorance... But I do know that LA state is not so. The reality is different.

Please, forgive me. It is about your country, but I love the USA, I have special friends here in this large country.

May God relieve how He knows and wills all these people. Many wounds are now, it is the time of prayers, and who can, help by deed.

Marian

I hear your anger about the rapes. I hear the anger about the help that has come too late. I pray for the lost and the dying and the dead and especially for the innocent children. My anger is also directed toward the failure to stabilze the levees before a catastrophe like Katrina happened. Coastal towns, learn from this catastrophe. We cannot let this happen ever again. I would say to the rest of the world watching America, yes, we are a wealthy nation but we still have our poor. We are strong and we will pull together to help our brothers and sisters rebuild their lives. That's what we do here in America. And we will Pray.

I'm not only angry about the rapes of women in the shelters, I'm angry about the way rescue workers are being shot at by snippers. the day after the storm, helicopters trying to evacuate hospitals were shot at, brining the evacuations to a halt. Also ambulances were shot at, hijacked and over turned. Some hospitals were looted, and the staff robbed at gunpoint. I've been a nurse for 26 yrs and have worked during numerous hurricanes and floods, but have never seen anything like that.
Today CNN reports that a crew sent to repair the levees were fired upon by snippers. Luckily they were accompanied by guardsmen who saved them.

I think was angered me most was that I can't understand why the other men at these shelters sat by while the raping was going on. It's inconceivable to me that any man would sit by while this was going on and not help the victims.

But then again, as in many places where these things happen - people are so callous that they don't want to get involved.

I just don't understand, I just don't understand. .

Or maybe the crminals are armed and the others aren't.

So much of the news out of New Orleans is infuriating and heartbreaking but here's an uplifting article I found.


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Strongly Pro-life New Orleans Archbishop Ministers to Hurricane Victims
�I am also a refugee,� Hughes said

BATON ROUGE, September 1, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) � The New Orleans diocese may be half under water today, but its Archbishop is personally ministering to his flock-in-exile nonetheless. Archbishop Alfred C. Hughes has set up an emergency field office in a parish in Baton Rouge and is spending his time blessing and comforting the afflicted. Hughes is visiting the many refugee shelters set up after Hurricane Katrina devastated his diocese of New Orleans, where 36% of the population is Catholic.

The Archbishop fled the storm, along with over a million others, with only two changes of clothes in his bag. Since then, Hughes has been hitching rides to the shelters with Louisiana state troopers and other aid workers to hear confessions, give comfort and spiritual aid to those who have lost family members and homes.

�I am also a refugee,� Hughes said to one group. �It�s not easy to be so drastically dislocated without any early hope of being able to return.� Hughes is ministering to evacuees gathered at the Baton Rouge Centroplex and three Baton Rouge Catholic churches.

Archbishop Hughes is known to LifeSiteNews.com readers as a strong voice in defence of the unborn, the sanctity of marriage and the rights of Christians to participate in the public square. In 2004, Archbishop Hughes gave a statement defending the right of Christians to participate in public life especially on issues like abortion and marriage. In 2002, Archbishop Hughes attempted to stop a representative of the militantly pro-abortion group, National Organization of Women, from speaking at Loyola University Law School in his diocese. This year, the Archbishop again clashed with Loyola Law when he declined to attend the commencement because the university was to grant an honorary degree to pro-abortion politicians.

Yesterday, Archbishop Hughes joined Bishop Robert W. Muench of Baton Rouge and Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco calling for a day of prayer for the victims throughout the Gulf area. �God has brought us to our knees in the face of disaster,� Hughes said. �We are so overwhelmed, we do not really know how to respond. Powerlessness leads us to prayer. And we know when we turn to God, God offers us his grace.�

Hughes spoke to the Times Picayune, which has switched to an entirely online edition after Katrina destroyed its New Orleans offices. He said, �Our first concern is for the people - the people who have died, the people who are left behind, the people who rescued and who were rescued.�

LifeSiteNews.com attempted to reach anyone by phone from either the New Orleans or Baton Rouge Catholic dioceses without success. No calls can get through to any number in New Orleans and attempts to call Baton Rouge met with a recorded message saying all lines were busy.

I would guess that all have read "Lord of the Flies". This novel depicts what we are seeing I think. When a society gets accustomed to having somebody else take care of it they tend to cease to take care of the needs of others. Not only do brutes act like brutes but no one stops them. They figure if somebody else (city, state, or national government) isn't here I'm not going to risk getting involved.

There's also been a great deal of pressure by some feminists groups to make men feel worthless. In response the weakest of the men become either wooses or brutes. When one has an entire culture (sub-culture?) that says to its citizens "You don't have any responsibility and if anything bad happens to you it's someone elses fault" one has a ready prescription for what is happening now. Order will not be restored until enough water recedes so that a majority can be reached.

But what then? If the corrupt city government doesn't change the next time an emergency arises there will still be no plan of evacuation in order. Busses will still be flooded out in the parking lots. Police will still flee the scene because they are overwhelmed. People will still refuse to leave even when ordered to do so. And evil will still raise its ugly head as you see it now.

Underying all of that is the lack of influence the Church apparently has in the NO society. That last issue is for me the most chilling of all.

Dan L

Thank you Dan. I suppose this is all a common reaction in an entitlement society.

Rose2,

I believe so. My father always thought that being on welfare was about the worst thing a person could do, unless the person was seriously handicapped. Even then the people we admired when I was growing up are the people who made something of themselves despite their handicaps or maybe in part because of them.

My Dad could do almost anything he needed having done. Ocassionally he had to take his car in for service but that was very rare. I know, cars are more complicated than they used to but I can't do nearly what he could under the hood. My father remodeled our house with a little help from some friends. I can do some things but not nearly what he could.

Though we were poor growing up we never relied on welfare of any kind. When my Dad had to stop working around his late 50's because of heart and respitory problems he finally broke down and applied for SSI. He tried for several years. I'm not sure if he ever received any. He died almost a complete pauper. It was hard to watch this proud man deteriorate.

I'm not as critical of the people who have been trained and encouraged to use the system when they really had no need for it as I am of the system itself which tends to keep people from the privilege of self reliance.

I do believe the entitlement mentality is in part responsible for many many deaths in this tragedy.

Dan L

I agree with Rose2, I was really infuriated at the deeds at hand. It just shows the moral decay of society. Also, there is a lack of dignity with much hopelessness.

It is intersting that Mother Theresa even had the blind makes matts for the floor and those who were handicapped if at all possible had some task to do. This all has to do with human dignity.

I saw a stark difference in those who were accustomed to being taken care of by the state and those who are accustomeed to being taken care of by God. Those who had faith were very much at peace, otherwise it seemed to me that they were very histerical people - which is understandable.

I also saw a segment on someone they have taken to calling St. Mary. She has been feeding the whole neighborhood from her restaurant. She went around to every house to see who was still there and told them to come eat. It said when she had still time she was always praying, it showed a small statue of Blessed Mother, a prayer card, and her sitting quietly with a candle burning. Then they spoke of the church in town, they don't have a priest. However, they were cleaning out the church and gathering there for prayer before the altar as much as possible.

Why the messup in communication, I don't know, except to say to those out of this coutry that the way the laws are established, local governments have to give the federal governement permission to come in. In other words the govenor of the state has to give permission for the national guard to come into a state. Also, martial law was not declared so federal government had to wait until the govenor gave the ok. There are many laws set up in our land that protect one part of the govenment from acting without another part of the govenment saying it is ok. It is protection of the people. Though materials were already on the move, communication broke down and I don't think anyone in this country fully comprehended what was about to happen.

Rescue operations began right away. However, personally, I noticed a stark difference after Pres. Bush met with the govenor of Louisana. While the govenors of Missippi and Alabama were more experienced in the workings of the Federal Gov.

Another thought is - have you noticed it is once again cool to talk about faith and prayer on the news? Don't you just love it, seems to me it is only when crisis is at hand that the media thinks you should pray. Oh well, that God he is on his throne and in control.
Pani Rose

Dan,

I think that while there is some general merit to what you say on self-reliance, in the particular context of the hurricane and flood it is way off. Any people in the area who relied on themselves rather than information and emergency preparedness plans of government agencies are almost certainly now dead.

Where did that idea that a major hurricane was heading for the area came from? Where did the call for voluntary and mandatory evacuation come from? Where did the blocking and routing of traffic come from? How were staging areas for public transportation established? And emergency shelter?

If you like to criticize the local officials you might read their FEMA approved plans at the website http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/ , and compare the outcome of evacuation with the plans - including the estimates about how many folks would respond too late for evacuation and what to do about them. What can be said is that with the help of the government over 80% got the warning and got out. And Rose before you start passing on the spin that it Blanco is to blame, scutinize the facts. There is a lot of misinformation about, now that we are in CYA mode. For example, while WaPo did publish the comment of a "senior white house official" that the governor did not declare a state of emergency even as late as 9/3, they later retracted the statement: the fact is, the declaration was made 8/26. I think that there will lots that can be learned about mistakes that were made at all levels; let's not neglect the top, where Homeland Security is seated and organized.

What makes me angry is the unforgivably slow response.

Citizens who survived the hurricane were in great danger from all of the hazards posed by the flood. They were then trapped without food or water in sweltering heat, and largely without security. There was hesitation uncertainty instead of single-minded determination to get people out of harms way. People remained in jeopardy and were dying of neglect five days after the hurricane. "Unacceptable" is not nearly strong enough.

It may be appealing to some to be critical about the lack of self-relaince of those who were cut-off in this way. If it makes you all feel better, it was reported that a man in the superdome thought to have committed a rape was in fact killed. Another report emerged of a man who upon hearing of a rape ran toward a security detail for help. They mistook him for a threat an shot him dead. Who knows if any of this is true. Maybe just urban legends, like the helicopter being shot at - news to the FAA that was handling all of the air traffic in NO.

Guess what. There are criminals, alcoholics addicts, and sociopaths among us. And in cities with big populations there are lots of them. And their concentration is probably very high in the crowd that did make the evacuation. You want the rest of the crowd, already suffering total loss and deprivation to organize themselves, just like that, and by themselves fend off the criminal element. If that were in the NO emergency preparedness plan (it wasn't), then shame on them for being so naive. Here's a better plan: get overwheling force, armed and trained, into the area, and get them there fast. And stop blaming the poor folks who were trying to survive while trapped with the thugs.

djs,

It's not either self reliance or governmental effectiveness. It is both and.

1. Why are there pictures of scores of busses sitting in their parking spaces flooded to the point they could not be used?

2. Why are their so few boats to evacuate people from a flood that was almost certain to happen?

3. Why did such a large percentage of people remain in their homes when they could have left?

Local governments are to be blamed for the first two. A lack of self reliance may be the blame for the latter, though many who were left behind were in hospital and couldn't get out on their own.

Clearly, its a mixture. My friend from LA believes was mostly a lack of self reliance. I believe it is about even.

Dan L

Go read the plan, Dan.

The plan includes setting up staging areas for those without transportation to be evacuated by busses. I don't know whether that worked or not. But the plan, also includes shutting down evacuation routes ones the gale forces winds made travel to dangerous, and then using the staging areas as emergency shelters. At which point the buses are halted.

It was anticpated in the FEMA approved plan that 10-20% would not get evacuated. And that is pretty much how it turned out. Why? Well, some self-reliant folks just refused to leave. Others were too slow, and others were just clueless. This includes a group of British tourists who spend a few days scared out of their wits in the Superdome - especially when all eyes were upon them as they were being the first led out. At least the band wasn't playing "Bye Bye Blackbird" as in 1927! These kids were on vacation and not looking at the news at all. And the criminal element might just see the evacuation as an invitation to stay.

The boats: There have been some reports that FEMA was keeping boats out. Here are some citations, for what they're worth: http://constructiveinterference.blogspot.com/2005/09/local-failure-caused-by-fema.html I don't know itf that is reliable. I just get the sense that, in typical bureaucratic way FEMA wanted as its first priority first wanted to be in exclusive control. Btw way Sen. Landireu's brother, the Lt. Gov. of the state was out in his boat hatcheting his way through house roofs. Thre are some hero's here. (I also love the 17 year old who hot-wired a school bus and drove a hundred evacuees to Houston.

I think the evacuation went as well as might be reasonably expected, and that we will learn from this to do better, if possible (you really should read the plan). But I see the federal bureaucracy as the grossly inept player in this sorry saga. They have the information, the supplies, and the manpower to get in and save people. This is their charge, it's why we have them. And they blew it.

I think you define "self reliant" differently than I do or than most do. That may be the cause of our failure to communicate.

Dan L

We can all point fingers here and there. I think the problem here was, a city that is built below sea level was a catastrophe waiting to happen. Now that the storm has passed and evacuation is being done, the city needs to look seriously at the situation they are in. Hurricanes will keep coming. The levee situation isn't working. Use common sense people. If you are to rebuild, think first!

tlk,

That is the situation now. I still wonder if it is possible to live close enough to the delta without being in the flood plain. Perhaps not.

Dan L

Oh, and one more thing Dan, I agree that you must take responsibility for yourself if you are able to. If you are perfectly capable to move yourself out of harms way and you refuse, what else can be done for you? If you are asked to leave, go if possible.

Dan, I have family on the coast who evacuate when a hurricane comes. Why take the chance. If you live in a low lying area, there is a good chance that you will see flooding. I can't see how the people of New Orleans didn't see that it was only a matter of time before this happened. You can't close your eyes to the truth. It will eventually smack you in the face when you aren't looking!

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I am not sure how many of you have lived through a natural phenomenon that involves the possible or actual swath of destruction and loss that the folks in New Orleans have undergone!

Here in South Florida, we experienced the landfall of Hurricane Katrina as a Level I hurricane. In our area we experienced the winds and noise and the rains of the hurricane. Lives were lost and people suffered injuries. Some homes were destroyed and many more were damaged. Great trees were brought low.

Power was out for some time (from two to ten days). In the heat of the dog days of a Florida summer this was not a situation in which it was easy to be.

Yet, we were spared the worst of the storm. Our degree of loss is miniscule compared to that in New Orleans! We are eternally grateful to God.

From our limited experience of the destructive force of this storm I can only empathize with those left to fend for themselves in this fury and its aftermath.

I find it ifficult to read that to some of my fellow posters the victims have become the morally culpable accomplices to the violence and evil doing of a few! Stranger still is the notion that these people, most apparently poor, should have the personal or communal psychic resources to take charge of the situation.

We felt great fear and anxiety here in South Florida at the onslaught of a Category I hurricane. Knowing that, It simply amazes me that anyone outside that situation would presume to pass judgement on the morality of the behavior of terrified and distraught victims of the terror in New Orleans. Who can say what he or she would be like in like conditions?

Of couse I am not speaking of those victims who chose to become rapists or killers. Nor am I suggesting that anyone associated with the Forum would become like them.

I pray that all of us never have to experience the degradation and horror felt by the poor in New Orleans.

The comments of the Mayor of New Orleans in which he told people at all levels who could help to get up off their duffs and help rang true to me.

I'm sure that there is blame enough to splatter on officials from top to bottom.

It is refreshing to hear the outrage of those who say that it was shameful to allow the victims to be without food and water for five days or longer!

I wonder how great the outrage is for the incompetence and malfeasance that allowed it to continue? Are the victims and the local administrators the only persons who have moral obligations in the situation?

I wonder about people who did not implement what plans there were. I wonder about people who were responsible for knowing and days into the horror did not know that there were survivors in great numbers in the Superdome and at the convention center.

I wonder about the politicians who chose to divert funds from levee building to other parts of the world and to tax cuts after having been warned about the probability of a catastrophe like this one.

I wonder because the next time this level of incompetence and neglect occurs it might have horrendous results for us in South Florida!

I certainly pray that the Lord of Wisdom grant to the powers that be a great increase in competence and understanding.

I pray that the God Who loves us so much that He sent His son to die for us will change the focus of our national spending from accumulating even greater wealth to preparing for such disasters whether of storm or earthquake or other force of nature.

May He guide our leaders so that what happened in New Orleans will never be repeated in our country.

I also pray for all of us in hurricane prone areas the the God of Wind and Rain will restrain His creations and make them work to the blessing of our neighbors.

I pray this with deep fervor in Jesus Name because the next storm or earthquake or string of tornadoes might be make us here, or you where you are, the next victims!

May we resist the temptation to judge victims and make them perpertrators until we have walked in their footsteps!

Forgive me for this relatively selfish prayer.

Steve

Steve,
To you I say---Amen, Amen, Amen!!!!
Forgive a sinner.

tlk,

That is the situation now. I still wonder if it is possible to live close enough to the delta without being in the flood plain. Perhaps not.

Dan L

True enough Steve. It is my understanding that when national funds were sought to build up the interstructure in Louisiana, our senate voted it down.

Thank God you have Jeb Bush as govenor. Whenever an impending storm threatens So. Fla. he arranges for response teams - electrical, phone, water, and food - to standby in readyness in Ga. so that they can do their jobs as soon as the hurricane has past. From what I understand, he personally contacts the presidents of Home Depot and Lowes to make sure they increase their shipments of lumber, generators, etc. in anticipation of the impending threat.

If I remember correctly, the govenor at the time of Hurricane Andrew said in a news conference something to the effect that "We don't need any help. We can handle everything on our own." Jeb declares Florida to be a disaster area even before those hurricanes hit, thereby getting the feds and fema involved from the start.

Tim Russert said yesterday that not only is New Orleans between levees, the ground between the levees is subsiding. That makes a bad situation worse. I am wondering if the insurance companies will even insure buildings rebuilt in the same places.

It's been a while Inawe. Thanks for that excellent post.

Steve, indeed welcome back. Yes, perhaps we need to ask persons like the Republican senator of Alaska who chairs the transportation committee why his Highway to Nowhere got funded when the levee funding was stripped.

Regarding self-reliance, I think you are on the money, djs. My great uncle George, a veteran who hopped a few atolls in WWII fighting the Japanese, and turned 88 this year, was one of those self-reliant types in Metarie. My cousin had to physically remove him and put him in the car to flee. He certainly, undoubtedly, would be dead otherwise.

I am sorry I was not pointing fingers at anyone, just stating that martial law was never declared so it was not possible for the Federal part of the Armed Services to go in and stop the looting and shooting and such. They have to be given permission to perform a police action. So there just was not enough security - boots on the ground as they say - to secure everything that needed to be secure, which was so unfortunate.

Pani Rose

Dear Rose 2,

Thank you for responding to my posting. It does appear that the responses to hurricanes here in Florida appear to be organized with a higher degree of competence than has been exhibited in the case of our brothers and sisters from New Orleans!

I appreciate that fact and I appreciate your concern.

Steve

Dear tlk,

I was glad to read your post.

But from one sinner to another, all we can do is accept one another and love and hope for Mercy from One who can grant it. So, please pray for me!

Thanks,

Steve

Dear djs,

It really has been a long time!

I've read your postings regularly in the interim. They are carefully thought out and well expressed. In them there is wisdom and charity.

Thank you.

Steve

Dear Diak,

Thanks for the welcome back!

I agree that there are many questions to be asked of many who have civil authority and responsibility to protect the weakest among us.

The picture of the level of incompetence and malfeasance emerging from the aftermath of Katrina is a cause for deep civic concern. The fact that water and food was kept from the civilians in New Orleans, for example, because of some type of power fight between agencies can only raise red flags.

I pray that we as citizens will do as you do and keep asking the questions that will help us to prevent this kind of disastrous response from happening again.

Democracy is not free and it seems that we the people will have to assert ourselves to find the truth burried in spins galore!

May the Lord preseve us from Spin Doctors of all breeds and lead them to speak the truth plainly. Until they do, may He grant us the strength and patience and wisdom to recognize their workings and counter them with loving presentation of truth!

Steve

Scripture says something about where sin abounds grace is even greater...There was great grace given during the storm, yet to me this is such a sad statement made by the head of an athiest group. This person is so blinded by the worldiness of the world that she can't see the grace of God. May she have the opportunity to repent and speak the words of life not death. The story witnesses to so many who have grown closer to God, and then this person...

"People need material aid, medical care and economic support -- not prayers and preaching."

Some evacuees see religious message in Katrina [reuters.myway.com]

Dear Pani Rose,

I'm not sure what you have to be sorry for. It is hard to sift the facts hidden in the layers of spin used to protect miscreants and others who would protect themselves at the expense of the truth!

You ask questions! May you be blessed for it!

Questions are the bane of those who would spin the truth for selfish gain or to protect evil. They are the curse to those who would have the people simply repeat talking points of any kind without analyzing what they are repeating!

In regard to the delay in sending in the troops, it comes clearer that there were other reasons besides the legality of being able to send them in. I read today that military leaders delayed in part because of their concern about asking 19 year old soldiers to enforce civil law.

That is another layer!

They keep mounting up.

The end result of them all are the destruction and the wanderers forced form their homes and the sick and the dying and the dead.

So questions we must raise or we fail the sick and the dying and the dead and the wanderers who, after all are not refugees but our fellow citizens, our brothers and sisters. To simply look away and allow this horror and its causes to become shrouded in secrecy and spin would be unforgivable!

In my opinion, we could be failing ourselves in the event that another disaster natural or man made (let's not forget the terrorists) would be made easier. Certainly horrors would be easier if we shrink from asking questions about who is or is not doing what and why or why not.

May the Lord protect us from incompetence and malfeasance.

May He help us to shine light on those who would spin His truth to conceal the incompetent ones and the malfeasant ones of all stripes!

I pray that the Lord will aid us to do the things that will restore the faith of people that their government is focused on them and their lives and their welfare first and foremost!

Thank you.

Steve

I understand your anger! Having served in the Marine Corps for 10+ years, I was angry, appaled and horrofied that "thugs" as the press called them were roaming the streets of New Orleans beating people and raping women. I never in my life other than September 11th, 2001 have felt so bad and sad and hopeless as I read these reports on the internet. I am still angry at this country's government's slow moving on this situation with the hurricane. Our National Guard should have been mobilized long before they were and sent in to restore order and protect fellow Americans. I was asked by a friend of my son, if I were still on active duty and I was told to "shoot looters" would I or what conditions would I shoot to kill? I told my young friend that if I saw men and women who were taking diapers, baby food/formula, water and other items needed to sustain their life and the lives of their families I would let them pass. When it comes to looters stealing TV's and other appliances I would apprehend them and if the situation warranted a warning shot, then I would do so. I told my young friend I am not in any way going to kill fellow Americans, I am not condoning "stealing" but these fellow Americans did not get food and water until the 4th or 5th day? Had this been another country, our government would have made sure all necessary supplies would have been on the ground and delivered within 24-48 hours. I find it horrible that our great country which has welcomed millions, that its own government could not get basic supplies to it's own people. The Anarchy that has gone on there I honestly believe could have been prevented! and this includes the crime of rape! And I understand the government is going to once again start an investigation into what went wrong about the after effects of Hurricane Katrina, and every year close to September 11th which none of us will ever forget, some mention is made about the mistakes made on that day! I do not apologize as I lost three dear friends on 9/11, I firmly believe 9/11 should not be remembered as the day so and so didn't do this or that! It should be remembered for all the victims and I for one will remember Hurricane Katrina and all the victims also. Believe me as a man I could not just sit and look the other way if I saw a woman being assaulted.

Self-reliance involves making the effort to find out what is going on around you, and, if needful, getting yourself and your family to safety. People who are poor in this country still have access to the internet (free, in public libraries), access to TV and to radio and to these warnings. I would feel that a major factor of daily life in Southern coastal towns would involve being aware of the weather, and a daily check would be in order. As for poverty, in most cases in this country, one can very easily get to safety on public transportation for very little money. If one is self-reliant, one has a plan...family, friends that one can get to for safety.

I think that the major problem is too much reliance on the government to take care of everyone. It may be that these "self-reliant" people who remained were not being self-reliant as much as feeling forced to hang around the few things they owned because they did not have those things protected by insurance, etc. Self-reliance involves self-preotection. I can leave my house because it is appropriatey insured, as is everything in it. That is self-reliance, not standing in ruins because you fear you will have nothing if you don't stay.

Gaudior, appalled at the looting and the inhumanity men are showing to each other at a time they should be pulling together.

I heard a discussion between Shaun Hannity and Jessee Jackson today on the radio. Shaun asked him why the people weren't taken out of New Orleans with over 1,000 buses just sitting there, that should have been used to evacuate people.

Jacksons responce was that there was no place to take them. That was the reason they didn't evacuate the people.

Sorry that doesn't make sence to me. Get them out of there, they will have a place to go. I mean even if they took them upstate someplace for a bit, at least they would have been out of town. Then worry about where they were going to go.

Just struck me odd.

Pani Rose,
I agree. Get them out. Did they not have any kind of evacuation plan in place before the tragedy happened? At least evacuate the elderly and those in hospitals. So very sad.

tlk I know what you mean.

There is a nursing home where I think they said there were 30 dead. I heard today they died because the people that worked there just left them. They said they couldn't get them out, so they just left. May God have mercy on their souls! The elderly are home with the Lord, the ones that left them have to live with it the rest of their lives. I pray they find peace.

Seraphim,

They are only going to try to apprehend those who were taking tv's and such. Those taking necessity items to live are not being sought. The government said they had to survive the best they could - I can't think of the word they used, but anyway those were not the ones they were referring too. It was those who were out and out stealing becasuse they could. I hope that helps some.

Glad to see you are posting again. You have a wonderful family and they love you very much!

Pani Rose

Pani Rose

To All,

I'd like to give my own personal opinion on the situation in New Orleans. What happened was not expected. Pres. Bush did declare it a disaster area before the storm hit, but when it veered to one side rather than the other they really thought New Orleans was out of major danger.

They were wrong because they never expected the levees to break. They did! Well let's face it, they don't call it the 'Big Easy' for nothing.

The world lives and learns, so I do wish the politicians would stop the blame game. As for me I put the blame somewhere else.

I recall about two years ago, someone we know from another country had to do some work in New Orleans. Well since he was there, he decided to take a look around. While doing so he noticed the extent of religious programs, but also the extent of the 'occult'. When I heard that I thought 'oh, oh', New Orleans is in for it.

Okay, Okay! It doesn't mean that the majority of people are worse than us, and who are we to judge, etc. etc. But then again the occult is prevalent in Haiti and Jamaica, and look at the state they are in.

Maybe I'm just reading things wrong, but it seems whenever I hear about catastrophic situations such as earthquakes and wars in certain places and times in history it always seems that they were into the occult big time. So let's not blame the different governments or climatic changes due to our negligence, etc., because even that would depend on the amount of enlightenment that is given to us by our Lord.

The truth is that our climate may be changing, (oh we sinners), and that does bring major changes that take a long time for people to adapt to. One senator from Mississippi said that his house had withstood every hurricane since 1860, and yet it was demolished in this one. So we live and learn. We learn how to deal with a city that becomes out of touch with everyone because of a flood, and we learn how to build homes that can withstand floods and wind.

I say people live on the second and third floor, and build cement homes with rounded edges.

Zenovia

To All,

And the worse is that all the criminal records were lost. We now have murderers walking around freely.

One of the reasons there was so much criminal activity during the flood was because all the criminals were let out of their jails. Now that's another problem that FEMA's going to have to figure out. The Greeks have an expression: 'To pathima, (what happens), eine mathima', (is a lesson). In other words, we learn from our experiences.

Zenovia

Gaudior:

You are talking about responsibility, not "self-reliance". One cannot go to a public library, go on-line download government weather reports, evacuation advisories and plans, etc. and talk about "self". The distinction is important.

Btw, what fraction of the people here do you think have exercised due diligence by having read the risk mitigation plans for their municipality, and have prepared themselves for immediate action in the aftermath of a chemical/biological/radiological attack?

tlk: Yes. Available on-line.

On the contrary disaster planning for hurricanes of this level focussed on just this possibility. Any person in a position of responsibility who claims that they didn't anticipate the brach of the levees is guilty of gross malfeasance.

Zenovia,

This was written back in 2001 and reminds me of your statements.

Oh New Orleans, shed ye the darkness or face disaster [spiritdaily.org]

Dear Pani Rose, thank you for clearing this up for me! Since I don't have cable TV, I only know what I hear or see on the TV at SEARS in our mall. I was very moved Friday, before I went to the high school to pick up my son, James. I saw a homeless man, he walked into the Red Cross Thrift Shop and I for some reason decided to follow him, his dog, he left outside. This man stood at the cash register and pulled out a really brand new winter coat and told the volunteer he wanted to donate it to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina! This homeless man was wearing poor-average clothing and he chose to give a new winter coat to a victim of Katrina. When he walked out I asked him why he did what he did? His reply: "Jesus needs that coat more than I do!" His answer was simple and powerful at the same time! I asked this man when he had his last hot meal, "three days ago!" was his only reply, I asked about his dog, "what I can get him out of the garbage!" I bought this man a meal, of course he wanted a "doggy bag" I assume for himself or maybe his dog. We left the restaurant, the man asked why I bought him lunch? I told him as his coat is going to Jesus, I just fed Jesus! We walked to the pet store in Henderson Center and I got his dog a 5 lb bad of dog food. By my car while his dog ate, and I must say I've never seen a dog make dog food look so inviting! So he was hungry also. This homeless man pulled out a prayer rope that was so worn and used, most would think it wasn't anything. I asked if he knew how to recite the rosary? He said he did, I gave him one. He then asked if I had a prayer rope, I gave him one. This homeless man asked me if I could take him to St. Bernards downtown, I told him I would, we went in and he took his dog in and held him the whole time. For a long time, I noticed this man stood for a long time before the statue of St. Anthony, he asked me to come up to the where he was, he asked if I knew that St. Anthony of Padua is the patron for finding lost objects? I told him I did know this, he then looked at me and told me it was time for he and I to part ways, because he needed to go to the parish office next door and see if one of the priests would hear his confession, he said it was time he was reonciled to the church. I asked him why today? He told me I showed him there are still kind people in the world and I led him back to God. He then asked if I would take care of his dog while he confessed. I took a medal of St. Francis and put on the dogs collar. When he came out from the church, he shook my hand and told me had I not done what I had done, he was ready to forget the church totally. I asked him if I could share this, he said I could, but he preferred I not write his name and he made me promise that the last comment will be his: "one person can make a difference in another person's life, we just got to reach out more often!"

Dear Seraphim,
A friend of mine - who was wearing clerical when this happened - was stopped by a poorly-dressed man, slightly the worse for drink, on the streets of Seattle; the man told my friend that had had been an altar boy and needed my friend's help. My friend checked him on a couple of Latin responses; the man passed that test, so my friend said "All right; you've got me. How may I help you?" The man responded "Father, I need you to say a Mass for my mother - this week is her anniversary and I don't have any money for a Mass in the parish!"
My friend nearly dropped dead from shock, obtained the mother's Christian name, promised to say the Mass (which he has done faithfully every year since then) and tried to take the man for a meal. The man refused the meal, would not accept money, thanked my friend for the Mass and went on his way.

No, I am not making this up.

Incognitus

I was listening to NPR's "This American Life" on the way home from work today. They didn't do their usual quirky stories but instead interviewed people who were stranded in New Orleans last week.
The tales they told gave a very different impression than the news stories. One woman told of hoodlums who looted stores and then brought juice and water to the children and old people in the convention center. She also said these same armed criminals were the ones who brought some order to the place, stopping the rapes and robberies. She said they were like Robin Hood, and though she never had much use for "thugs" [her word] she respected these young men.
Another woman told of a man who hijacked a truck of water and brought it to an encampment of evacuees and then loaded the oldest of them in the truck and brought them to safety.
At the same time there were tales of government action that went beyond inept to culpably evil: stopping people from crossing a bridge to the west bank of the Mississippi, where it was dry, even shooting at them [this was local sheriff's deputies] and the National Guard also stopping people from leaving the hellish convention center.
It was clear that the disaster brought out the best and the worst of people, not only among the impovershed victims but those sworn to uphold the common good...
-Daniel

Thank you guys, I am in tears with joy from the testimonies you have given.