www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall prolifers not pleased with Bush's choice for attorney general

Well I didn't imagine that you were teasing IM, and am relieved that you disagree with Malkin and her ilk who justify the broad-based, due-processless detentions.

I don't know that there is much debate on this point. The problem is in some sticky facts. Who makes the determination "enemy combatant" vs. POW or non--combatant? How long may a person be held with no determination being made? Prior to a determination what treatment does detained person get - that of a POW, a citizen, ...? What access to legal process, and humane treatment should the detained have?

An amazing claim. Have rosters and case histories of the detained been published?

And what would you make of the citizens of Fallujah? Geneva convention requires combatants to allow non-combatant civilians to escape the battlegrounds. That's a problem in warring against an insurgency, where the distinction between combatant/non-combatant is not obvious. So we surrounded the area and sealed it off. Would you claim that 98% of those detained in this way were detained lawfully?

Daniel,

Thanks for your post. I was speaking mostly in jest (hence the smileys I used throughout my post).

Sadly, in our country today people who are pro-life are almost synonymous with the �right wing�. Pro-lifers seeking to serve in the political arena are not allowed to rise to prominent positions within the Democrat Party. I was quite proud of one Ohioan woman who was interviewed on Election Day. They asked her how she voted and she told them that she had voted for the President, even though she did not agree with his economic policies. The interviewer then asked her why she would vote against her own economic interests (a very leading and biased question) and she responded: �Because I�m Catholic and Pro-Life. It�s wrong to kill.� Her comment reminded me that we are really called to give up even our homes and food for the cause of life. All of the other issues (economics, vouchers, labor, etc.) together do not equal the cause of life. Because I am pro-life I am labeled by the Democrats I know as �right wing� (they don�t� really care that I am also a proud conservative). If they chose to call me �right wing� because of my stance on life issues I will happily bear such a label and call everyone else to join me.

Admin

I didn�t say I agreed or disagreed with Malkin. I said that she brings some valid points to the discussion. I said that the fact that she has been trashed by the Left probably meant that she had something good to say.

I don�t know the answers here. In WWII we held German and Japanese prisoners of war without due process. I would probably not be as broad-based in allowing enemy combatants to be detained for length periods of time but neither would I assume that the administration is evil until proved not evil. I think that the hysteria by some has only made a difficult issue more difficult.

All good questions. I don�t know the answers. But I trust the administration�s judgment just as I trusted the judgment of the Clinton administration when he sent troops to Bosnia and other places.

I think it is reasonable for both the Left and the Right to press for clearer definitions of who is an �enemy combatant� and, when they are detained, what type of treatment they get. I would prefer it would be done without much of the hysteria and political agendas. Some Democrats and Republicans have done just this and submitted issues to the courts.

Humane treatment is a must, but I am not sure I would give them all the rights we have as citizens. I say this even as part of me feels that extending such rights would be a excellent example to the world (but is it worth the cost of releasing them and having them rush back to the battlefield to shoot at our men and women?). This is a new type of war (since we are fighting enemies who are not of a single nation). I am inclined to be flexible. Afghanistan just had reasonable peaceful elections. Although it will be years before democracy has taken root I would be inclined to think that since our major effort there is (hopefully) completed it�s time to address the issues of the detainees. For Iraq, I would hope that no one would be held more than six months to a year after free elections without due process.

But these are my opinions and just that. I am open to hearing what everyone has to say.

Not that I know of. But, again, I am inclined to trust the administration since I believe that it has done a pretty decent job in both Afghanistan and Iraq. The company I work for has men and women in both countries. When we get reports they are, on the whole, far more positive than anything we seen in the American news.

I�m not sure I see your point. The Iraqi authorities announced at least a week in advance that the offensive was coming and told the people to leave. If we can believe CNN, approximately 80% of Fallujah�s 300,000 residents fled the city. The rest were told to stockpile food and water and to stay indoors for the duration. Today�s Washington Post also had an article on this, but it was mostly complaining that many insurgents might have escaped when the citizenry evacuated.

Dear Administrator- I agree with you in principle; however I simply do not trust Mr Bush to do more than throw the symbolic bone to the prolife dogs. Hence, I abstained from voting for president. By the way, lest anyone think this an oddball solution, Alistair MacIntire of Notre Dame, an esteemed and respected thinker, wrote an essay defending precisely this approach.
It is shameful that the Democratic party has excluded working class ethnics and southerners, its natural constituency, but it has done so in no uncertain terms. One would hope that they would have learned their lesson with this most recent election, which should have been an easy win, but I suspect that in America we have only two parties: the Stupid Party and the Stupider Party...
-Daniel

But uou did express your sentiments that do disagree with hers.

I don't know the answers either. I am suspicious, however, of political administrations. Clinton conducted the was in FY to minimize (to zero) US casualties as the expense of higher civilian casualties in FY. John McCain called these tactics those of a war criminal. I am inclined to agree. And this administration has hardly set a laudable tone in its military/police conduct. I am delighted that this administration is being taken to court and that its activites, vetted by the AG nominee, are being checked.

This is very true. I have pro-life friends who like me, would place themselves on the moderate left of the political spectrum. Of course, there are those in the GOP who seem to think similarly, that to be anti-abortion necessarily makes one a conservative Republican. Not!!!

I too abstained from voting in the recent election. After much prayer I concluded that I could not in good conscience vote for either candidate. However, I would have preferred a Kerry victory because I am skeptical that the president is truly committed to the pro-life movement. His support for Specter and now Gonzales suggest to me that abortion is not as important as issue to him as it is to me.

I agree with what Daniel wrote about Catholics being unable to identify with either mainstream political philsophy. As a catholic (little "c"), when asked if I'm liberal or conservative, I feel to have answer "neither" or "a little of both."

To answer Dan's usual question, "what do we do?" We have to compromise somewhat. We're not the majority in this country. A protestant country will never give us the option of a political party that is completey consistent with a catholic worldview. But we need to be clear that we're compromising and not mistakenly identify either mainstream political position with the catholic faith.