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Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hi David,
I think I have read most of you recent posts. I did read the thread where you debated DomV.

I not only didn't see anything wrong with your posts but I rather enjoyed the exchange! Actually DomV is a pretty good poster too, aside from that flap. I had read plenty of his other posts and they were often quite good.

I just didn't see any whining. Perhaps they are not used to our 'style' here which may carry over.

What surprised me the most was ZoeTheodora's comments. I didn't realize she detested us so much. But you handled that very well.

All is Mercy and Grace. God's Will is Best.

In Christ Jesus Our Lord,
Michael

Dear Michael:

Perhaps ZoeT is still smarting from her "rough" treatment here (and her eventual "banishment" from this Board)?

Just thinking . . .

Amado
(Can you please specify the Forum/thread at ca.com where DavidB was "accused" of "whining"?)

Sure I can, it is in the Apologetics Forum with the title of Orthodox are not Schismatics [forums.catholic.com]

I think that link should take you there.


David, the Byzantine Catholic

"Every evil screams only one message: 'I am good.'" Fr Alexander Schmemann

I read this post of yours and it was great... I can't believe that Karl blew it off but I think that tells us a lot about Roman Catholic Answers.

Thanks alot, I will be back but I am not sure how much....

It seems that Roman Catholic Answers likes to use the word whiner a lot... I saw Karl use it in this thread and the Admin used it in another thread...

Seems they use it to dismiss those that they disagree with.... If your comment goes against something Roman Catholic Answers said, then your a whiner.


David, the Byzantine Catholic

"Every evil screams only one message: 'I am good.'" Fr Alexander Schmemann

Wow; interesting and very spirited exchange. I think people here ought to heed Zoe Theodora's comments: I've often been scandalized by the way well meaning Latins are treated here and by the anti-papal nonsense one too often encounters. I did not think her comments anything but cogent objections to very real problems here. Way to go, folks, offending interested Romans of good will... if we want our churches to grow we'd better be a little better at not repelling those who are attracted to our way. Or is there some merit in maintaining an exclusive Byzantine Club?
As for this "I am Orthodox in communion with Rome" thing: in honesty shouldn't you say "barely in communion with Rome"? Or "grudgingly in communion with Rome?" I've always thought that must strike the Orthodox the way it strikes me when an Anglican or a Lutheran informs me that they are really Catholics. I think "uh, no you're not". I mean in all honesty are you trying to inform or annoy? Wouldn't it be better to say "I am an Eastern Catholic with a love of the Orthodox faith and a deep yearning for reunion"?
And to keep it in perspective, when I returned to the Catholic faith in 1979 there was practically no one responding to the Evangelical onslaught on Catholics. Apologetics was nearly nonexistent. Whatever their shortcomings, Karl Keating and Catholic Answers almost single handedly changed that. Every Catholic owes them a great debt...
peace, Daniel

I generally have avoided Catholic Answers over the years. I know they have had success in converting Protestants to Catholicism, but I think some of their success comes from their degree of fundamentalism. I think part of their success comes from teaching Catholic fundamentalism to Protestant fundamentalists. Fundamentalists of any stripe seem to cherish simplistic doctrines and answers which reinforce their desire for certainty. Therefore, it is no surprise to me that Catholic Answers has little understanding of Eastern Christianity. I have also noticed among Catholic converts I have known in my area, that the most argumentative and divisive former Baptists have become the most argumentative and divisive Catholics. I sometimes wonder if all the religious instruction of converts is changing their affiliations more than their hearts.

Daniel,

A few weeks back I saw an ad for "Relevant Radio" in a church bulletin and started listening. It was by listening to the radio show that I learned of the Catholic Answers internet forum. Prior to both of those events, I had never even heard of Karl Keating! So please forgive me, but I honestly don't know what it was he and his organization single handedly did that I owe a great debt for. I'm not trying to be wise here - I honestly don't know!

If you could, Daniel, Please give me a little background.

Thank you!

a pilgrim

Dear Al:

You haven't heard about Keating's group, prior to "Catholic Answers Live" on "Relevant Radio," because you are Eastern Catholic! :p

Karl and his apologists have more than a fair share in counteracting Protestant and other pseudo-Christian "militancy" in the U.S., and in North America, starting in San Diego in 1979 one Sunday morning after Mass when he was still a practicing attorney and his parked car was reportedly papered over with virulent anti-Catholic propaganda.

"Catholic Answers" has been affiliated with EWTN Worldwide TV, EWTN Internet, and now EWTN Worldwide Radio.

The group has produced tracts on "Eastern Orthodoxy" and it is reasonable to assume that the apologists have delved into "Eastern Catholicicsm" as a consequence. Their knowledge of the Eastern Churches should be "substantial."

In addition to "Catholic Answers Live," "Relevant Radio" features segments on the Eastern Catholic Churches. Last week, I heard the segments for the Maronite Catholic Church and the Chaldean Catholic Church. I don't know when they will feature the BCA or the UGCC, or the other Eastern Churches within the Catholic Communion.

By the way, Karl Keating is a cradle Catholic.

Amado
(P.S. We keep on bumping into each other! Isn't it ?)

In some places I think that this is the case. But the Spirit will eventually get to them. Our Lord will bring them into deeper communion through the Eucharist. I'm experiencing that right now. I converted two months ago, and up until the last two weeks I was so obsessed with legalism and forced apologetics of my friends and relatives, sorta ignoring the whole Christian aspect of being Christian...At confession a little while ago, the Spirit moved me to actually live as a Catholic and not just carry the Catechism word-for-word around in my head . I guess I was more than happy to be Catholic, so long as I didn't fully surrender myself to Christ and drop the 'holier than thou' attitude with people around me. I finally said to myself "ya know, you've been in the confessional for the same mortal sin every week... what's going on here?" And I heard a voice say "because you are not receptive to the Grace I offer. You are not perfectly contrite for your sins."

Wow that was a wakeup call. I went out and bought a book on approaching prayer according to the patristic tradition written by Fr. Gabriel Bunge, a Benedictine. I'm just two chapters into the thing, but already I've taken the advice of Clement of Alexandria and have placed my crucifix on the Eastern wall of my room and assume an Eastward posture when praying. That little thing has already made a huge world of difference in my prayer life (I had no idea that the pagans in Alexandria usually oriented themselves Westward!)... I think I'm gonna make it, by God's grace. Well, I know that the Grace is there. I just need to accept it.

That was sorta off on a tangent, I guess. I think that a big reason why Protestants never fully convert in the Western church anyway, is that most Masses and parish communities look just like their protestant ones. There's protestant rock music, protestant decor, and lots of unorthodox Bible studies taking a very protestant approach to the scriptures. Reading all of the apologetics materials in the world and going to RCIA are just the first steps to conversion a protestant should take. It should not be the only step. I think it's necessary to integrate an emphasis on living the Christian life into the catechesis, and if I ever end up teaching RCIA or CCD I'm going to be sure to do that. I think then that protestants would see that the music and customs they enjoyed before converting are really not compatible with an authentically Catholic expression of the faith. I think that a lot of them are living in little comfort bubbles with all the protestant trappings they have around them.

Amado,

If I'm going to keep on "bumping into someone," I'm glad it's someone like yourself, from whom I continue to learn!

See you over at one of those "other" places, my brother!

a pilgrim (who recognizes he still has much to learn!)

Hello my Byzantine brothers,

I'm sorry to hear you have so much trouble with Latin Catholics. I myself am a traditional Tridentine Catholic. All I can say is, keep fighting for your traditions and make your voice heard. I feel your pain, somewhat, since we traditional Latin Catholics have to do the same.

God bless,
Daniel Jones

I have this book! I have read it, and I think that this was a wonderfully opportune choice for you. I recommend it to many people and I lend it out.

You certainly have stepped out into the right pathway!

Michael, that sinner

Amado, my brother,

That division of the two was the thing that I found most unpalatable in looking at that site.

Call me a dreamer .oO(he will too :rolleyes: )

Many years,

Neil

Could either of you provide the full title, publisher, and full author name for the book? There are no Byzantine bookstores in East Tennessee, so I will need to order it online.
Many thanks,
Charles

Just for you!

Earthen Vessels: The Practice of Personal Prayer According to the Patristic Tradition

by Gabriel Bunge OSB

Ignatius Press 2002

ISBN #0898708370

Blessings,
Michael