www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Warning about new forum

Francis, I used to teach at a SSPX high school and college and attended their Masses on and off many years ago. My wife formerly attended a sedevacantist boarding school. So we have both been there and understand the psychology involved very well. I definitely can relate and understand your sentiments. God bless.

Dear Gina,

Sorry I didn't use your name before, I didn't see it until I read your last post.

When you wrote "When they loosened the belt so to speak and allowed for the New Mass and softer teachings, many just went rampant", I mistook this as a rejection of the Mass as promulgated at Vatican II.

I realize the Mass today isn't an English version of the Tridentine Mass, but the same essence is there. All of the necessary parts are still there. It isn't as "magesterial", as some would put it, but when celebrated properly, according to the rubrics, it has its own beauty in its austerity.

To Anyone Interested,

I did a quick search for Catholic forums yesterday and found one that is much more universal in scope than the Catholic Answers forum.

forum.catholic.org [forum.catholic.org.]

I didn't check it out in depth, but I think it would be much more hospitable to all, Catholic and Orthodox alike.

Just make sure you come back here.

Well it is more welcoming but be careful of some strong apologists there...the Eastern contingent is a small one and I don't think the Mod there is a patch on ours! :p

Anton

Dear Friends,

Religious forums tend to set great limitations based on denomination as to what may be discussed etc.

I think this forum is one of the most democratic in this respect.

There are also Orthodox forums, and I'm thinking of one in particular, where it is presented as an Orthodox enclave.

In discussions on controversial matters between Catholics and Orthodox there, when the Orthodox side has no further argument, then it is said that "how dare you come to this Orthodox site" etc.

This forum is one of the best ever, let me reiterate.

Alex

"Catholic Answers" (catholic.com), founded and organized by Karl Keating and manned by ROMAN Catholic apologists, is geared primarily towards Protestantism in general.

I am certain some of these ROMAN Catholic apologists must have "studied" the Eastern Catholic side and other Eastern Churches. But the milieu of their ministry is "Western."

"Catholic Answers," like Marcus Grodi's CHNetwork.org, form part of the vast EWTN evangelization efforts. In fact, both groups are also featured in the "Relevant Radio" program airing daily not only in North America but also throughout the world.

While stuck in traffic here in Chicago, I "accidentally" hit Relevant Radio's AM 820 and "Catholic Answers Live" was taking and answering questions from ANY and ALL callers from North America. I think they do a good work.

I wonder if Eastern Catholics should "hitch on" also to the Radio side of EWTN's vast network for a short segment, like 15 or 30 minutes, and present and discuss the "other lung" of the Catholic Church.

It appears that "Relevant Radio" gets funding from voluntary contributions of large companies owned by Catholics and from regular listeners.

Joining in the "fight" with our Roman Catholic brethren in the U.S. against the "world" (read: Protestantism in general) rather than be in opposition could be a better alternative?

Your Latin brother in Christ,

Amado

Dear Amado,

Do you believe that we'll relate better to Protestants by "fighting" them?

Alex

Alex:

Yes, if we take "fighting" the Protestants in the context of scripture "Chapters and verses," like what Marcus Grodi (a former Presbyterian minister) did yesterday in his "Open Line" program broadcast live from his hotel room in Quebec (Canada).

Amado

Dear Amado,

Well, I think there are better ways of relating to Protestants, but everyone has their way!

In fact, there are a number of issues that Eastern Catholicism and Protestantism actually see eye-to-eye on.

And perhaps if the Protestants got more of the Eastern Catholic perspective on things, they would be less combative about Catholicism as a whole.

I've certainly found this when I've discussed Eastern Christianity with Protestants at university and at work.

Alex

Dear Alex:

The amazing thing in the current "New Evangelization" efforts of the Catholic Church, at least in the U.S., is the "providential" conversion of "knowledgeable" Protestants, ordained ministers and theologians such as Marcus Grodi and Dr. Scott Hahn, leading the "fight" versus their ex-brethrens in Protestantism.

Thus, the "Chapter and verses" analogy!

It's the proverbial case of "it takes one to know one!"

Amado

Dear Amado,

Yes, that is an amazing phenomenon.

Such Protestants convert in a number of cases when they find that "Sola Scriptura" isn't the last word - what about Tradition, the Canons and the Fathers?

Even the Bible itself is a part of Tradition, as we know. Protestants hotly contest this, but without the Church's canon of scripture, we'd have two times the number of New Testament books that were once read in the early Church.

In addition, liberalism in Protestantism appears to be another "push" factor in getting people over to the apostolic Churches - as it seems to be when Catholics go over to Orthodoxy.

For me, the best way to approach (evangelical, anti-Catholic, sectarian) Protestants on this (especially when they come after you!) is to look at the context of Tradition and the Church as a whole.

A lot of their arguments appear to fall down in such a case.

Alex

Like "Bill from Latin rite," I am "forced" to endorse Catholic On Line (COL)'s forum.catholic.org for its "civility!" It is rare, to say the least.

Perhaps, the "secret" is their requirement for registering members to include the latter's "real" name, in addition to the usual internet "handle." They say that COL's research indicates that cyberspace discussion of one's faith becomes "more civil" if one knows that he is "talking" to a "real and live" person.

Further, at any time an "uncharitable" remark is posted the Section Leader or the Section Moderator immediately gives warning that any additional uncharitable remark will be deleted.

I was tempted to propose to our Admin here to adopt such a policy when he was asking for suggestions but it seems we, in byzcath, have weathered some "crises" without such a requirement for membership. But it is a point to consider now, or later.

COL's forums include a good section on the Eastern Churches wisely "subdivided" into the "Catholic Eastern Churches" and the "Orthodox Eastern Churches."

Membership in COL's forums is really worldwide. It has thousands of members, coming from so many countries. It is much larger than Catholic Answers' simply because CA just started early this year, I think. Some members from COL have also joined in CA's forums.

To the credit of our Administrators and Moderators, our Byzantine Forum compares well with COL's forum.catholic.org.

Amado

I haven't visited the site [my online time is very limited these days] but it sounds like familiar territory, territory I once inhabited. In general, Roman zealots think they know more than they do, and procede with a combination of ignorance about the East and suspicion of anything that contradicts their presuppositions. And it doesn't help when they run into genuine anti-Roman sentiment, which as we know is far too common among Eastern Catholics and gives scandal to many. In my experience - and most of my close friends remain RC- with patience they can come to see and appreciate other points of view if they are constantly reassured of your [small o!] orthodoxy.

Well now.... I finally got an email yesterday telling me why I was suspended and that this suspension was for a week....

I was going to leave it at that and wait for the suspension to end and then decide what I was going to to at that place...

Well someone on the forum noticed the suspension and posted a question about it.... Another poster mentioned that an Eastern Catholic was suspended and that he could not see why...

Mr Keating answered that suspensions and bannings happen when one violates the rules. And that sometimes the moderators deem that the individual just needs some time off and is suspended.

Then to answer the second poster Mr Keating says that it is their policy not to discuss this in public but.... then he goes right on and puts out only a protion of what he said to me in the email... He conviently leave off the beginning, which I will share here....

From his reply it appears that I was banned for some comments I made in the thread I started titled "Orthodox are not schismatics", these comments were to DominvsVobiscvm (who also happens to be suspended) and ZoeTheodora (these two have been here in the past) about their insistance to measure Byzantine Catholics with their Latin yardsticks.

But I think my thread about the using of a person name when they recieve communion had to do with it also as Mr Keating said to me, "I have appreciated many of your posts, but I also have been annoyed by many. You whine a lot. (That's a blunt word, but it fits.)

The result is that you end up giving members the impression that Eastern Catholicism is not so much something to be investigated as something to be wary of, because it produces advocates who keep picking fights.

Instead of saying, "This is what Eastern Catholics believe or do and why other Catholics should take an interest," you complain that Western Catholics are slighting the Eastern wing of the Church."

The rest of what he said to me can be found in the thread there in the Misc topic in the thread about banned/suspended.

Now I ask those of you who have been there, was I whineing? Must we approach Western Catholics when they get it wrong by telling them what we believe/do and why they should take an interest?

Hasn't the Holy Father already said why they should take an interest?

I think it appears that Catholic Answers is annoyed when we point out their slights against the East.

Thanks for allowing me to rant.....


David, the Byzantine Catholic

"Every evil screams only one message: 'I am good.'" Fr Alexander Schmemann

David,

I, too, posted a reply directly to Karl Keating in that same thread... actually, I got kinda carried away - it took me three separate posts to fit it all in! The general "theme" of my post was twofold:

1. I took issue with his apparent "taking of sides" with regard to his treatment of you during your dialogue with DV, especially since the forum in question is supposed to be "Catholic," not "Roman Catholic;"

2. I expressed my views on our Holy Father's mandate that all Catholics take steps to learn of the riches of the Catholic East and use whatever means available (e.g. that forum) to "spread the word" to our brethren. I even point-blank asked Mr. Keating to use his considerable influence and take on a leadership role with regard to JP II's directive.

Sadly, he chose only to address the portions of my post that he interpreted as personal attacks, becoming very defensive and totally ignoring the entire point of my comment #2 above. his final comment to me was to drop the whole thing and go back to "having fun"...

Sorry, Karl, but it's not too much "fun" to be misunderstood, ignored and worse by your own brethren...

The posts, his and mine, are still up there, under "Miscellaneous" / "...suspended vs. banned..."

I'll still go back there - I think that's what the Holy Father would expect - but I'll go back with a bit more "education" under my belt! I'm just not yet ready to "shake the dust off my sandals" with regard to those folks! Stubborn Rusyn, y'know!

BTW, David - I received many PMs as of late asking me to relay good wishes to you if I should run across you on an Eastern Catholic board, as well as prayers for your vocation. You are missed and your comments are appreciated, my friend!

a pilgrim