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Patriarch Lubomyr needs to realize that he needs to stand up and put his foot down on the issue of the Ukrainian patriarchate rather than play a diplomatic game. He tells Rome what they want to hear and the Orthodox another.
MAKE UP YOUR MIND YOUR MOST HOLY PATRIARCH OF KYIV AND ALL OF RUS'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like another parishioner of Sts. V&O has joined our little fray.

Yours,

hal

Dear Hal:

Is it a case of "follow the leader"?

AmdG

You know, I like those guys from Sts.V&O.

... and we like you too.

As for "follow the leader," I honestly don't know. Hey, "Pat" - give me a hint - are you a Krylos person?

Yours,

hal

Let's be realistic, dorohi brattya.

The Synod didn't vote for the elevation of Lubomyr to the Patriarchate, they voted to ask Rome for the Patriarchate. BIG difference.

Get the Sivach/Sower this last week? Lead article was "Cardinal Husar thanks..." written by a Ukrainian Catholic.

He signs his letters as "Cardinal and Major Archbishop". If (1) some or most of the people don't refer to him as Patriarch and (2) he doesn't refer to himself as Patriarch, we ain't got one.

If someone calls a guy Fred, but others call him Joe, and he calls himself Joe, he is still really Joe, isn't he?

Or as Lincoln asked: If you call tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? Four. Calling a tail a leg does not make a tail a leg.

On a related topic,

(1) When is the Patriarchal Sobor in Kyiv to be completed ?

(2) Is the Sobor to be completed before the residential and administrative complex ?

(3) Who are the UGCC Basillian bishops ?

Dear Hritzko,

1) According to the Patriarchal Sobor web site, 2004. I assume this to mean construction completed by the end of this year, though very little has been revealed concerning decorating the temple.

2) I have not read any comments on the other facilities, though from pictures this work seems to be a bit less developed than the church itslef.

3) The following is from the UGCC seb site (Ukrainian version: УГК&a...;#1086;пів [ugcc.org.ua] ). All transliterations are my own. Also, some bishops did not have OSBM listed in their titles - I have listed all titles as given on the web site.

• Kyr Irenei Bilyk, OSBM, Eparch of Buchats
• Kyr Sofron Dmyterko, OSBM, Bishop-emeritus
• Kyr Lavrentii Hutsuliak, OSBM, Eparch of Edmonton
• Kyr Pavlo Patrykii Khomnytskyi, Apostolic Exarch of Great Britain
• Kyr Volodymyr Kovbych, Bishop co-adjutor of Curitiba
• Kyr Yefrem Kryvyi, OSBM, Eparch of Curitiba
• Kyr Vasylii Medvit, OSBM, Exarch of Kyiv-Vyshhorod
• Kyr Sofron Mudryi, OSBM, Eparch of Ivano-Frankivsk
• Kyr Severian Yakymyshyn, OSBM, Eparch of New Westminster
• Kyr Volodymyr Yuschak, OSBM, Eparch of Wroclaw-Gdansk

Kyr Stefan Khmiliar removed from list as per post from Charles

YES, my tenor contributes to the angelic sounds of Krylos:
Commercial:
STAY TUNED FOR THE RELEASE OF THE SPIRITUAL SOUNDS OF THE GREAT FAST BROUGHT TO YOU BY KRYLOS.

The only normal basilian is Medvit. I was at an arkhiyereyska in Kyiv this past summer and thought I was in an Orthodox Church.

Next:
I was a delegate at the patriarchal sobor and we all unanimously voted FOR the elevation of the patriarchate. The bishops voted also. They were supposed to vote for this the same way at the Synod a week later. All they did was vote that all parishes are supposed to recognize Patriarch Lubomyr as Patriarch. Those bishops are affraid of Rome. Forgive me but they are COWARDS!!!!!!

Maybe we should get Fr. Taft to meet the synod. He'll tell him how its supposed to be done.

In reality: Our true Patriarch died 20 years ago.
You all know who.

Dear Pat:

The monastics of the OSBM are a major source of your Bishops so I am a little bit surprised at the negativity some Ukies inordinately display against these monks.

Could it be because of their 4th vow a la the Jesuits (who, of course undertook the Dobromyl Reforms)?

Help us understand.

AmdG

The basilians are the majority of our bishops because Rome favors them. Because of the Reformation by the Jesuits, the basilians became latinized in turn vowing loyalty to the Pope. Would the basilians have this majority if it was up to our synod to select the bishops? I don't think so.
There you have it in a nut shell.

Does anyone have statistics as to a breakdown of UGC clergy by 'order'/non-order? I wouldn't be surprised if the breakdown of bishops is fairly close to that of clergy. I have a feeling that the Synod may try to keep a balance among the bishops.

As our bishops should come from among the monastics, there should be no 'Basilian' or 'Redemptorist' (etc.) bishops, as these don't meet the Eastern definitions of monks. As there are very few of these, IMHO anyone nominated to be a bishop should first officially leave their order, receive monastic tonsure, and then be consecrated.

Dear Pat:

Do you mean to tell me that the above IS a latinization?

Or, should it be one of the hallmarks of being Catholic or is it a given in the Catholic Communion?

AmdG

Dear KO63AP:

Can you please explain why the OSBM is NOT a monastic order or community by Eastern definition?

AmdG