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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Nov 2001
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 Hi Remie You wrote:"...I'd like to know how the Russian missions could control this among the Aleuts..." You've read about the Spanish conquest of Pre-Columbian Mexico and into the Southwest, well, read that again and substitue Russian for Spanish and Aleute for Indian and you'll somewhat of a picture. Aleutes were enslaved by Russian traders. There are many, many stories of massacres of Innuit and other Native Alaskans as well as other Native tribes ( 1st Nations for Alex  ) all the way down the West coast of North America to Russian Fort in California. A very, very sad period in the history of our Church and our country. mark
the ikon writer
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Brian,
"AGAIN (how many times!) They are NOT equivalent terms!!! homosexuality indicates an attraction to members of one's same sex between adults, the latter, attraction to children/teenage boys. They are VERY different. To equate them is dangerous and leads to greater bigotry not to understanding. To link them does not illumine this discussion"
I suppose you can repeat this as often as the Administrator allows you to repeat it but it is not appropos to the thread or to the issue. Same sex sex is normally called "homosexual". No amount of twisting will make it something else.
Dan Lauffer
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A word of faith needs to be made here:
As I'm tempted toward discouragement about this whole mess I'm drawn to the examples of the many martyrs of the Church over the centuries. In every case the recounting of these stories have brought courage and hope to all who believe. While we must not forget the evil and the fact that our Lord commands us to pray and never faint the ability to "never faint" is strengthened by the stories of the good and faithful who have given their lives for the Gospel.
I will continue to fight this evil and ignore the calls to pretend it doesn't exist. I will draw my sustenance in part from the stories of the martyrs. I pray that you will do the same. My intention is to remind you of some of those stories over the next several days.
Fight on. Be at peace.
Dan Lauffer
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Brian, "AGAIN (how many times!) They are NOT equivalent terms!!! homosexuality indicates an attraction to members of one's same sex between adults, the latter, attraction to children/teenage boys. They are VERY different. To equate them is dangerous and leads to greater bigotry not to understanding. To link them does not illumine this discussion" I am talking about sexually active priest! I don't care if they are Gay, Straight, or Phedophiles. All are wrong! Prof. Mike, I am VERY aware of the Donatist heresy. I do not in anyway associate myself to there theology. My position is quite simple. Why should I give financially to a church that allows this kind of abuse to flourish? Further, why should I support financially a hierarch that is in itself the problem? [ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: aChristian@Work ]
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Originally posted by aChristian@Work:
I am VERY aware of the Donatist heresy. I do not in anyway associate myself to there theology. My position is quite simple. Why should I give financially to a church that allows this kind of abuse to flourish? Further, why should I support financially a hierarch that is in itself the problem?
I am reminded of the following from Matthew: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; therefore do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach. (Mt 23:2-3; NRSV)"
You really are treading the fine line of Donatism. It is the faith that is important.
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John Member
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John Member
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Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ, I have received the following e-mail from one of our priests regarding this thread. I had not really been following this thread but when I received this e-mail I read the entire thread and agree with this priest. I apologize for allowing one immature person to conduct a witch-hunt on this Forum. Are there problems in the Church? Certainly. But the witch-hunts advocated by the original poster are highly unchristian and the work of the Evil One. While the people on this board are arguing over the best way to conduct a witch-hunt the overwhelming majority of our priests are going about their daily ministry of administering the Sacramental Mysteries and helping people. I had a call late last night from a priest friend of mine. Yesterday he administered the Sacramental Mystery of Anointing to four different people in the final states of life, counseled two couples with marriage issues and stood with a parishioner while her doctors gave her the bad news about her husband. The e-mail I received from one of our priests was in the line of �what I would like to post�. I post it because it is excellent and accurate and is something that needs to be said on this Forum. I invite �Ex� to conduct his witch-hunts elsewhere on the internet and I will pray for him. If he indeed has come across evidence of the misbehavior of any priest he has a responsibility to present this evidence to this priest�s bishop. Administrator This is the e-mail I received on this topic:
Dear Ex Whatever:
To say that you will not receive the sacraments from a celibate priest is not only misguided but also, even using your own reasoning, goes against the teaching of the church that you profess to love so much, which states that, in any case, the "efficacy of the sacraments does not depend on the worthiness of the minister."
I have not spoken out on topics such as these for several reasons, not the least of which is that people who are so hasty to judge others and feel they have all the answers nauseate me. Other reasons are that going after clergy in this fashion is unproductive, it is un-Christian and self-righteous.
As a priest myself, I'm sure you will condemn me too for defending my fellow clergy. I will simply say that you and your colleagues had better have solid evidence for what you claim, lest someone drop a lawsuit on you all.
For one that is pursuing a life of holiness, you claim to know quite a bit about each and every priest, of all kinds of jurisdictions. When is there time for prayer, sacrifice and love of neighbor? You must have been given a special gift of omnipotence by God. I surely do not have the same mind-reading skills and I think that I have had ample opportunity to become a rather good judge of character.
If the Catholic Church, Roman or Eastern disgusts you so much, then perhaps it is time to look for a perfect church that will suit your expectations. It will take you the rest of your life to do so and the goal is unattainable. And do not think that the answer to this ordeal lies in Orthodoxy or any other denomination. In time, they will all become unacceptable to you. I do not condone immorality or false lifestyles by clergy or any Christian person, but I do feel that the situation is getting out of hand, particularly with organizations such as the one you now recommend. Are there any bishops who are not on their "list"? Soon, it would seem, they will all be listed. Even Bishop Wuerl, one of the Vatican's former hitmen, is now under the investigation of your group.
Moe and Brian, you have said it well. The church will not be well served by inquisitions, witch-hunts or "watch-groups" and that is exactly the direction that these people feel they have the liberty to pursue. A further reading of the Gospels and their application to our lives, would serve all much the better.
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