www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall African and African-American Christianity

Hello

I was wondering, to what Aportolic Church would an African-American convert? Which one has more African people among its members?

I know that in Africa the Greek Orthodox Church has missions and some supporters among black Africans eventhough the Coptic Church and the Ethiopian Church would seem more African than the Greek Church.

Do Orthodox, Eastern-Catholic and Non-Chalcedonian Churches hold any apostolate among Arican-American?

Mexican,

In the USA, I would say that the Antiochian Archdiocese is the most open towards them. I have seen some also in the GOA & OCA.

If you check out the website below, the actually will be having an interview with an African American Orthodox Priest convert.

Come Receive The Light [receive.org]

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Fr. Moses Berry is an OCA priest who has a small country mission in Missouri (Theotokos "Unexpected Joy" near Springfield) and also is the caretaker of an historic slave cemetery which contains the remains of some of his ancestors.

Reader Michael Bishop was formerly with the OCA and is now with the Patriarchal parish in Washington D.C. Fr. Paissius Altschul has several African American nuns in a small convent in the heart of Kansas City under the Serbian omophorion.

I think the Ethiopian church is generally too ethnic for most African Americans - very few services have been translated from Ge'ez into English.
FDD

Here in suburban New York, I have only seen one African-American woman and one African-American man (through marriage to his Greek-American wife) at either of the two Greek Orthodox parishes I have belonged to the past twenty years.

However, we have had many visiting priests and deacons that were from Africa.

Alice

Dear Father DIAKon,

Yes, I've had words with our local Ethiopian Orthodox priest about translating the services into English . . .

It's high time . . . I just can't stand it when the Church doesn't respect the need for servics in English . . .

Oops... for some reason, my nose is growing!!

Alex

I hope this helps:

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/OBHO/places/places_of_worship/st_philips.html


http://www.shunpiking.com/bhs/Marcus-gar.htm

I.F.

Nothing whatever against Marcus Garvey - in many ways a heroic figure - but, alas, the so-called "African Orthodox" Church is neither African nor Orthodox - its remote progenitor is a long-dead episcopus vagans name Joseph Rene Vilatte, who directly or indirectly founded quite a number of paper churches (actually the "African Orthodox" are one of the larger groups of his progeny).

This outfit would probably never have come into existence had it not been that neither the Catholic Church nor the Episcopal/Anglican Church were prepared to ordain black candidates at the time.

More seriously - in fact MUCH more seriously - it occurs to me that in Africa there are perfectly genuine African Orthodox, both those who belong to the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria and those who are connected with the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria, either directly or through Ethiopia or Eritrea. Since the liturgical traditions of all three are reasonably similar, it would not be difficult to arrive at English texts and use them for congregations unfamiliar with Ge'ez, Amharic, Coptic and/or Arabic. Pope Shenouda is quite mission-minded and would certainly not object to an outreach using English.

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

One problem with that is that the Ethiopian Orthodox are still quite "ethnic" and have an "immigrant" mentality.

Very much like the UGCC after over 50 years since WWII . . .

They still pine after the "old country."

Can you imagine?

Alex

Dear Alex,
Yes, I can imagine it. And I'm also aware that there is some, ah, lack of full fraternity between recent arrivals from sub-Saharan Africa and African-Americans of what we may euphemistically refer to as the previous emigrations!
Nonetheless, there is no reason to doubt that the Ethiopians/and or the Copts/and or the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria - all of whom have outreach programs in sub-Saharan Africa - would be willing to do something for African-Americans if so requested by a significant group of reliable people. With modern methods of communication and travel, establishing good contacts is unlikely to be difficult.
It occurs to me that in Uganda, Kenya and I believe Tanzania the local Orthodox Africans (Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria) have as a matter of course translated services and other things into the relevant African languages - so there would be no reason not to use English in English-speaking countries or congregations.

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

Well, I certainly do my part in pushing English on the Ethiopians - I wouldn't want that in the UGCC necessarily (but I'm slowly changing my hardened attitudes - not because of the Administrator, but in spite of him . . . ).

I rather doubt that many African-Americans would want to attend those long services . . .

We even have Ukies up here who attend the local RC parish because they prefer the shorter services.

That is why I pray for a return of the Tridentine Liturgy in the West - to shew these people back to us . . .

Ciao,

Alex

We have the same issues with short masses so that they can attend soccer on Sundays. Sat evening Liturgy was introduced to match the Latins with their first mass of the Sunday after Sun set on Sat evening. Mind you if it's less time in church why would you want them back. They will be pressing priests to rattle the liturgy off at great speed ot to shorten the liturgy so they can get out.

On the language thing. I read somewhere that in the Astrakhan area of Russia on the Caspian Sea before the Revolution they used over 200 different languages in their mission work.

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Alex,
I regret to assure you that it is all too possible to celebrate the "Tridentine Mass" in less than 15 minutes.
Meanwhile, most Christians from Africa do NOT like short services.

Incognitus

My physics master set records in saying the Tredentine Mass when it was the norm. So much so the Head Master had to forbid boys from packing out the side chapel on cold dark mornings where he was saying mass while the nave of the church was empty. We were very bad boys and used to time him. We also used to loose the altar wine in the dark and have to go back to fill up again (to the top). I am sure I heard one morning he had done 13 minutes. When the NO came on board with concelebration that was the end of the good old days. We also were of the opinion that father's false teeth were what we could hear while he was doing the purification of the chalice after communion. Dominus vobiscum sounded more like "scum" . I am sure he now rests after many years labouring in some of the rougher patches of the vinyard.

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Pavel,

You are more than correct, sir!

Pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox outreach was so strong that they even went into Tibet and there was one Russian theologian or cleric who apparently did what I hear was an excellent religious/ethnographic study of Tibet Buddhism - comparing their practices and showing how similar they were with Orthodox practices.

(Does anyone know anything about this publication? I'd love to get a copy and money would be no object to obtain this!!)

And, even more impressive, was the work of a Russian missionary among the Assyrian Catholic Church of the East ("Nestorians") and who actually brought a group of them into communion with Russian Orthodoxy - allowing them to keep their Assyrian liturgy and Rite etc. (This also occurred in the U.S. when an Assyrian Church came into communion with Russian Orthodoxy - there was a thread on it a while ago).

It is clear that the Orthodox missionaries from Russia, and before them, from Kyiv, had a keen sense of the importance of culture and cultural identity among the peoples they were evangelizing - it is a lesson we can all learn from.

Alex

Dear Incognitus,

Then let me put the question to you - if you were in charge of an outreach program for the Ethiopian Orthdox Tewahedo Church, what would you recommend they do in term sof practical steps to do outreach among African immigrants?

With your permission, I would download your response and share it with the EOT parish priest here.

Alex