www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall A Peaceful Koran?

Dear Teen Logo,

Daniel would NEVER do what you suggest, and that should never be said even in jest.

I don't know what a " Christian Muslim sympathizer" is.

If you do, please present an outline to enlighten all of us!

Alex

Alex,

Of course he wouldn't, but I replaced "someone" in my edited post because it could be viewed the wrong way.

To others, to inform before my edited post: at first I put "Iconophile" in place of "someone on the Forum" because I know that SPDundas has taken many issues with Daniel's views on Islam, or rather, on Muslims (views with which I pretty much agree).

Logos Teen

Dear Theist Gal you posted:
I say:

Well if you mean Daniel, (I know you don't), he certainly would not kill anyone unless it's me. (We've had such arguments). Actually I know that you meant extremist Muslims, and not Muslim sympathizers.

Also, it's been a pleasure having you on the forum, and I do wish you would reconsider and give us a little of your humor now and then.

Zenovia

Dear CDL you said:

I say:

It seems that certain laws were taken from the Byzantine laws of Emporor Justinian. He believed that everyone must be converted to Christianity, (in any way possible), and that only the Jews were allowed to worship freely...but not to build any new synogogues.

This is probably where the concept of people of the 'book' came about in Islam, and why Christians and Jews were given more freedom...but not much! The harshness of the Muslim laws must have been a heretical twist to the original Byzantine laws.

As for Dhimmi being a problem, I don't see how that could come about unless the majority of the population becomes Muslim and thereby falls under Sharia law. Would the dominance of the Western culture change them? But then how could it if the extremists are willing to go to every extent in order to establish themselves as the authority.

Now by every extent, I mean not only a disregard for the life of a Christian or Jew, but a disregard for their own life as well as the lives of other Muslims. It seems to me to be form of cult such as the Nazi's were, where everything must be sacrificed for the 'state' of Islam.

Frankly, I do see a clash of civilizations, especially if the U.S. becomes powerless through some economic mishap. Funny how the last wars were between the two evil opposing political systems of nationalistic fascism and international communism, and the coming war will be between the evil of the religious/political system of Islam and our athiestic secular paganism.

But this is my opinion...I'm very fatalistic!

Zenovia

There are many Christians who don't follow the teachings or rules of the Church...contraception, liberal views, etc. for example.

So in the same way...Muslims don't follow the teachings of Islam, even some Muslim women I know don't wear that headcovering.

So, my point is...a true Muslim follows the teachings of the Koran. And I hate to say it...the extremists or terrorists are true Muslims in a sense...since they're not only accepting it and practicing what the Koran teaches but they live it.

What is WHY I said many folks in the Forum don't seem to understand what Koran is really saying or what it's really all about...and it is really the foundation of the Islamic religion. Which is scary to know of a such religion such as Islam to promote so much hatred and violence in the name of Allah.

But I apologize for being sarcastic about "being careful with Muslim sympathizers in this forum" as I look back to the controversial posts few months ago. But it's equally scary for the posters to be blind about what the Koran are actually saying...

I've posted many examples from passages of the Koran. But obviously...no one will believe it..or accept it...or was/is in denial. Nothing I can do about it. I just have peace of my mind knowing the reality of Koran and how scary it is...and because of that...I'm better prepared for it.

Thank you,

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Dear Spdundas,

The Muslims worship the Koran the way we worship Jesus. Actually, thinking about it, they are worshipping words, or rather poetry. But that's besides the point, after all I'm of Greek heritage, and too many times I've seen the beauty of the language, and it's expressivness idolized by those that should be worshipping God instead.

What I do think though, is that a discussion should come about between Christianity and Islam. Rather than merely saying we must follow Christ the son of God, shouldn't we be saying, we are following the 'Word' of God that became flesh. That we do not worship three gods.

I read an article by a former Muslim, (I don't recall if it was on this forum or not), but he said that we have to learn how to express our beliefs to a Muslim world....that is if they'll let us, which they certainly won't if we keep caricaturing Mohammed. :rolleyes:

Zenovia

Zenovia,

I did not know that the Muslims worship Koran like that...wow.

That's even scary knowing that now...considering that the words in Koran in many places would say something like "kill the Christians and Jews for not accepting Islam."

Wow...interesting...

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

While this may be so, many of the rebukes she has suffered for those remarks have also been somewhat less than charitable.

As to a "peaceful" Quran, it seems there is not likely to be much of a civil discussion of Islam, Muslims and the Quran on what is decidedly a Christian BBS in a Western world which is bombarded daily with reports of reminders of what muslim fundamentalists feel is "truth" by way of bombings, beheadings and other barbaric acts.

Certainly while certain Muslim fundamentalists resort to beheadings, carbombings, kidnapping etc, there will continue to be precious little tolerance for what they believe in by non Muslims. If they haven't figured this out in the last millenia, there would seem to be little to suggest there would be any change in the next millenia. Perhaps it is my own cynicism towards a religious view that hold little if any tolerance toward nonbelievers to the extent that it's own sacred book advocate the murder of nonbelievers who do not convert to Isalm.

Interesting that Christ said that if nobody in a town accepts the word of Christ...it's for the evangelizers to shake the dust off their shoes and wipe their hands and move onto another town.

There's no mention of any violence in there for anyone not accepting Christ the way the Koran says for their Muslim believers.

In fact, Christ says for us to turn another cheek, walk at extra mile, clothe the naked, feed the hungry, etc. including making peace with the "enemies."

Nothing in the Koran Quoran however you want to spell it...would do such a thing for anyone except for their own believers.

The mere title of this thread is a contradiction in itself.

spdundas,

I couldn't agree with you more.

-uc

Dear Spdundas,

I don't believe the Koran really says anything that is very detrimental to us, and if it does, it contradicts itself. There is another book called I believe the 'Hadith', (I might be wrong), that is detrimental to us...or so I've heard.

Although our Christian teachings are perfect, we ourselves are far from it. Actually, Europe has become very pagan, and northern Europe especially believes that it's culture and laws are more civilized and superior to the rest of the world. We seem to be following them, and this is what the Muslim world see's.

To them, what is observed in our movies is considered reality, as it is also to our new generation. Sooo! This is one of the things the Muslims are fighting. As I said, we have two conflicting evils. One is creeping up on us, (secular paganism), and because of that, it has given rise to that other evil....Islam, and it's desire to go back to sharia law.

Zenovia

Hi Zenovia,

Christ is risen!

You're so right about being caught between two evils-- secular humanism and Islam.

The Qu'ran was written by Mohammed over a long period of time, and the chapters therein (called suras) are not numbered in chronological order. What you find is that the first suras to be written (while Mohammed was in Mecca) were much more tolerant than the ones he wrote later while in Medina. By that time, he had some power, and these suras-- particularly sura 9, which is thorught to be the last written-- are intolerant and violent.

Something even more disturbing is that these verses written later actually CANCEL OUT the earlier, more peaceful ones-- this is the doctrine of "abrogation."

Hadiths are written traditions and teachings of Islam, that are based upon the Qu'ran. Some of these will also make your hair stand up on end...

God bless,

Karen

Zenovia,

Then I'd suggest that you go to the library or anyplace to read the Koran and you'll see for yourself that there are passages after passages after passages condemning Christianity and Judaism and kill them, maim them, torture them, whatever to those who do not accept Islam.

Then you'll understand what I meant by the terrorists are really true Muslims in a sense...since they're abiding the words of the Koran.

It's been going on for thousand years.

Syria was once one of the largest Christian communities in history...which was wiped out by mass genocide by the Muslims and now today, they are the smallest minority there. Syria by comparision was larger than Roman Catholics and of all Christondom at the time.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine