www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Old Rite Celebration Photos

Are there any Old Rite parishes in communion with Moscow?

Yes.

There have been edinoverie/united faith parishes wihin the patriarchate since 1800. The service to St Seraphim of Sarov was acually written by the dean of the OB's within the patriarchate. They really were second class citizens under the monarchy, without bishops and their temples forbidden to the rank and file members of the state church.

However, things are a lot happier now!

Christ is Risen -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Several came into communion more recently, especially in the years after the 1971 Council presided over by Patriarch Pimen recognized the Old Rite as equal to the New and apologized for past abuses (although in reality the attitudes did not change overnight).
FDD

The most interesing case of edinoverie/united faith, was that of the Nekrasov cossacks who fled to Turkey. They were provided with Old Rite priests by the Oecumenical Patriarch. Anyone with a knowledge of Russian Church history and the schism will apreciate the irony of this.

The situation continued until somewhere around 1970, when the remaining Nekrasovtsy emigrated to the US. Sadly, the Turkish authorities confiscated many of their books, as objects of historical interest. These included liturgical books with Eucharistic rites obsolete everywhere else in the world - and these were rites that were still in use!

Khristos Voskrese -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Where in Turkey did the Nekrasov cossacks settle? Is it known where in the USA the cossacks may have settled and how are they in their new country? It is a great shame that they did not forsee that their service books would not be allowed out of the country. Hopefully scholars will be able to access the books in Turkey.

ICXC
NIKA

As there are 'Turchanie' in Oregon, I would guess that they are probably the descendents of the Nekrasov cossacks.

The Liturgy of St Peter (a Byzantinised Old Roman Rite), used in conjunction with the commemorations of the dead/soul sabbaths, has been located in a Serbian Slavonic manuscript in Chilandar monastery on Mt Athos. How it differs from the Old Believer manuscript is not known.

Khristos voskrese -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Weird-looking miters.

Other than that, I would say it looks like any other Russian Orthodox service, but then again, when it comes to this stuff I have an untrained eye.

-uc

Would bishops in the Russian Empire have been wearing the Sakkos at the time of the reforms of Patriarch Nikon?

They do tend to prefer Mitra's that almost keep their ears warm. As one who does feel the cold up top I would have to be given one with fur trip and flaps to cover my ears.

ICXC
NIKA

The older Nastolnaya Kniga Svyachennosluzhitelya claims "there was not a sakkos to be found in all of Russia" until the 15th century.
FDD

Dear Pavel Ivanovich,
Here's the trick for the mitre in the cold: first have the mitre made to suit you. Then purchase a nice, simple fur hat with ear flaps - made to match the fur trimming on the mitre. First put on the hat, then put on the mitre, then go and bless the waters on Theophany out-of-doors.
N.B. For this exercise, one also wants outsized vestments so that one may wear a suitable coat under them!

Incognitus

Many thanks your Beatitude....oops

Patriarch of cool

ICXC
NIKA

Though the sakkos is the normative vestment for the bishop in Old Rite Orthodoxy the phelonion with the omophorion remained popular.

Our Old Rite sakkos has only a minor difference to the new rite sakkos, in having a button on the right hand side for the attachment of the epigonation (which has a button loop, but no tapes). Equally our phelon has three buttons across the front allowing it to be shortened according to liturgical need. However, these are not really used these days.

I've never thought of the Old Rite mitre being oddly shaped. Tub-shaped mitres were very common in Greece and the Balkans before the advent of liturgical tailors. It is the bulbous Greek mitre, precariously perched high on the head that seems odd to my eyes.

Only bishops in Old Rite orthodoxy may wear mitres with icons. An abbot would wear a quite plain mitre with decoration such as crosses and flowers.

Khristos voskrese -
Mark, unworthy monk.

This is standard on Greek-style bishop's vestments.

Perhaps Metropolitan Ambrose of Bela Krinitsa still wore his Greek-made vestments after joining the Old Rite, and subsequent Old Rite tailors copied his vestments? Just a thought!

Dave

hehe, I just realized that Anthony uses the same icon as Father Anthony. I had to take a double take!
I live a few hours from Erie and at some point I intend to visit the Old-Rite Parish.
The thing is, I've lived in Pennsylvania for so long and have only been to Erie twice.
It is so far out of the way, and usually there isn't any reason to drive there. Usually the only reason people around here go is to fish the lake for steelhead or take a chartered walleye fishing trip.

I noticed yesterday that Fr. Anthony had changed his. Fr. Anthony's is now this:
[Linked Image]