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Today I watched some TV and in Spain channel they showed some images of Pope John Paul II visiting Slovakia and it was quite depressing. He seems to be very sick, in addition to that a bee was near him and didn't let him continue reading his speech and he had problems to breath.

What is your opinion about these frequent visits? Will he visit the Byzantine community in Slovakia?

I read today that this is his last foreign trip for this year.

The Byzantine Catholic community is coming to see him, especially for the beatification on Sunday. There are many buses, perhaps tens of thousands of Greek Catholics, coming to Bratislava this weekend.

This article says 100 buses of Greek Catholics are coming.

PRE�OV: Na p�pe�ovu om�u do Bratislavy gr�ckokatol�ci v 100 autobusoch [mesto.sk]

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Here is an interesting article in today's New York Times.

Poosh BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

*************************************************
A Golden Papal Handshake?
By PETER STEINFELS
New York Times

he Roman Catholic Church has detailed provisions, honed by centuries of sometimes painful experience, that regulate the election of popes. It has virtually no provisions for the very modern problem of aging and physically or mentally declining popes.

That point is raised every time Pope John Paul II, who is 83, shows new signs of the degenerative Parkinson's disease that afflicts him or of the other ailments bestowed on him by age and an attempted assassination. Arriving in Slovakia on Thursday, he could not continue delivering his talk at the airport, and again yesterday another Vatican official had to read the homily the pope meant to deliver at an open-air Mass.

Some Catholics take exception to any discussion of papal infirmities as though it were an attack on the pope's leadership. But in a world where the blessings of medicine are often shadowed by prolonged mental as well as physical incapacitation � including senility, Alzheimer's or coma � it seems that the church has to address the question, not as a comment on this papacy but as an institutional reform for future ones.

Indeed, there are two questions: What to do in the emergency case of a pope so incapacitated he could not carry out his duties? And how to make such an emergency much more unlikely?

Popes can, of course, resign if they recognize their debilitation. As recently as 1996, Pope John Paul II issued a document largely dealing with papal elections that also specified some conditions for a valid resignation. There have been rumors that he has himself secretly readied a document to be issued when he no longer feels capable of his work.

But every time the possibility of a health-related resignation is raised publicly, whether for this pope or any other, it is swatted down by Vatican officials. Such a precedent, they believe, would encourage a papacy's critics to press for a resignation less on grounds of health than opposition to the pope's policies.

In any case, resignation is no solution to the problem of mental incapacity, whether that developed gradually or suddenly through injury or stroke. Mental incapacity or intimidation would render any resignation invalid or, in a borderline case, suspect in a way that could create a crisis in the church.

Church law indicates that special rules should apply in the case of the papal office being "impeded." But no such special rules have ever been promulgated. What standard would be used to determine if a pope's mental condition rendered him "impeded"? And who would make that determination?

"This is a rather serious vacuum in the church's constitutional law," wrote the Rev. James H. Provost, a professor of canon law at Catholic University of America. His article, "What if the Pope Became Disabled?" appeared three years ago in an issue of America, the weekly magazine published by the Jesuits, shortly after Father Provost's death.

The best the church could do, Father Provost suggested then, was rely on parallel cases, like the incapacitation of diocesan bishops. (The pope, after all, is bishop of Rome.) Bishops are judged "impeded" if they can no longer communicate, either orally or in writing.

Still, that approach can go only so far since there are no real parallels to the office of pope in the Catholic Church. Thus, it would seem prudent to minimize the chances of such a problem even arising. Some people have proposed a mandatory age of retirement or resignation for popes like the one for bishops.

The pros and cons of this proposal were briefly examined by the Rev. John Jay Hughes, an emeritus professor of history at St. Louis University, in another article published in 2000 in America.

One worry is that the lingering aura of a retired pope might cast a shadow over the authority of his successor, or even that a retired pope could exercise an active role in the choice of that successor.

On the other hand, the power of medical science to prolong a pope's life almost guarantees periods of paralysis or decline for the church, if not outright disaster. "If bishops are asked to resign at 75," Father Hughes wrote, "would it not be reasonable to request the same of the bishop of Rome five years later?"

Then he reminded readers that a papal age limit would probably have precluded the election of Pope John XXIII, the man so many people, non-Catholics as well as Catholic, consider a saint, who was about to turn 77 when elected.

Also sometimes discussed is the idea of a set term for popes, say 10, 12, or 15 years. One advantage would be to make younger men more eligible for the papacy. After a long papacy like John Paul II's, who was elected at age 58 in 1978, the cardinals choosing a successor are wary of selecting a younger man who might serve for an equally long time.

It is sometimes joked that any younger cardinal of papal timber should come to the conclave that will elect John Paul's successor with a doctor's note saying that he has a serious heart problem.

In an age of global travel and global media, the pope has become the public face of Catholicism. When John Paul II was physically as well as intellectually vigorous the church benefited from that image.

Even when he became, as Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger of Paris said a few years ago, someone "increasingly a prisoner in his own body," his suffering conveyed a message of endurance and spiritual strength.

But if he, or any pope, should become manifestly mentally enfeebled, the symbolism of his leadership would be drastically altered, as those who keep emphasizing that John Paul has lost none of his intellectual acuity obviously recognize.

Any changes in church law regarding an incapacitated pope, an age limit or a term limit will have to be made by the pope himself. Whether John Paul applied them to himself or not, he could make them a final gift to the future church. Or his successor could establish the tone of his papacy by decreeing them within the first weeks of his election.

In the Orthodox Church there've been exaples of Patriarchs who resign for age reasons. Not long ago the Melkite Patrarch Maximus, resigned and became Patriarch emeritus while another patriarch was elected.

Is that possible in the Roman tradition?

What are the impressions of the beatification Mass from those who viewed it? I set my timer and taped it on EWTN (although it began later than stated on their website, so my tape shut off sometime during the distribution of Communion).

The Greek Catholic choirs present were good, although it seemed that the sound systems didn't amplify them as well as the Roman choirs (a conspiracy, I tells ya! ). I found it interesting that one of the Prayers of the Faithful was read by a Greek Catholic deacon in Church Slavonic (or was it?). I thought the commentary supplied by EWTN was extremely lacking, especially considering the wonderful job they did with the Ukraine visit. I mean, I never knew the Byzantine Liturgy includes a line from the Stations of the Cross before the Gospel. :rolleyes: And his lack of an "sh" sound in "Presov" was odd.

I wish they would have used an icon of Blessed Basil Hopko instead of a portrait, but hey, such is life I suppose. They forgot to consult me this time.

Any other thoughts?

Dave

The problem I have with the NY Times article is that it says nothing of the role of the Holy Spirit in the role of the Papacy. But of course, what else should we expect. Many in the American media see the office of the Papacy in strictly political terms, which is why they can't understand why we don't have some type of democrat process involving the laity when it comes to picking Popes and even Bishops.

My heart goes out to the Holy Father who is struggling so hard right now. I have heard that while physically he is weak, mentally he is as sharp as ever, which must add an extra burden to his hardships right now. Can you imagine what it must be like to have the same mind you have had all along, but a body that refuses to obey the mind's commands? Too me it would be like being trapped in a cage.

Sometimes when we sing at Liturgy for God to grant the Holy Father many years, I almost feel guilty. He is so worn, so burdened...he has worked so hard in the vineyard, hasn't he deserved his rest yet? But God must have more for him to do and while I know it's not a popular opinion, I believe that the choice when JPII is done as Pope must be left to God to decide.

vie

As if the NY Times has any real concern for the Holy Father or the Catholic Church. After all, we are seen as "the enemy of human progress" by them.

Slava Isusu Christu!
Glenn

If you can provide a phone number for the Holy Spirit (or at least an e-mail address), I'm sure the New York Times -- whose copyrighted work was republished in this thread without permission -- would have been glad to contact Him for comment.

Honestly, that's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Should the New York Times reports on Islam take into account of the "fact" that there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet?


--Tim Cuprisin

Dear Tim,

That the New York Times have no contact with the Holy Spirit - you've hit the nail right on the head there, Big Guy!

This reminds of St Thomas More. When I played him in a high school play, I had to fight hard not to laugh on stage when it came to these words when Sir Richard Rich left the More family room.

Rich left and his family then begs More to arrest him. When More asks them, "what law has he broken?" Roper, his son-in-law says, "God's law!"

To which More replies, "Then let God arrest him . . ."

Alex

Dear Friends,

I personally think that one reason for His Holiness' problems was that the Slovakian trip was too long for him.

It should have been two days, not four.

When he was here in Toronto for World Youth Day last year, I met him and saw that while he was clearly suffering from physical ailments, his mind was sharp and he was well aware of everything going on around him.

But he spent a good portion of his visit here resting at Strawberry Island where the Jesuits have their retreat house.

So when it came time for the Vespers and Mass services, he was well rested.

He also stayed at the monastery directly behind our old home and we saw the helicopters come in and out.

I'll never forget that. I also met the nun who personally prepared the Pope's food and tea for him.

I think this trip was more a problem with the organizers who expected too much from the Pope.

We Canucks made sure His Holiness got plenty of fresh air and relaxation for every hour he was in public.

I've never had a high opinion of Vatican officials.

I still don't . . .

Alex

Shlomo Tim,
Under copyright laws we are permitted to use these articles under the "fair use" doctrine. If you wish Tim I can post all of the relavant laws to pertain to the "fair use" doctrine here in Canada and the U.S.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Instead of posting portions of articles or entire articles, the more prudent course is to post the URL link of the article. This is course of action allowed by the NY Times .

See more info at:

FAQ on copyrights [nytimes.com]

The Pope has stated that he will not resign because "Christ did not come down from the cross."

'Nuff said ...

Thank you for posting that.

I can add a couple more:

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

(Specifically note No. 4.) Fair use is described as "a short excerpt."

And saying "here's an interesting article" and republishing it in its entirety is not, by any stretch of the imagination, fair use.

Here's a look at one of the biggest cases in the area, the L.A. Times & Washington Post vs. Free Republic.

http://www.techlawjournal.com/courts/freerep/Default.htm

Put quite simply, this is theft, since the article is owned by the copyright holder and he or she hasn't granted permission to republish it.

And, as the deacon points out, posting a link is "more prudent."

--Tim Cuprisin

Dear Friends,

Popes DO have the option of resigning after they reach the age of 80 and Cardinals and Bishops usually submit their resignations at that time unless otherwise asked by the Pope.

However, in the East, the bishop, metropolitan or patriarch stays in office until death.

This is why Bishop Isidore Borecky of Toronto (+memory eternal!) refused to resign to make way for his "Apostolic Administrator" some time ago.

He was asked by Patriarch Josef the Confessor himself to stay in office until death or serious physical debilitation.

The charge against him by his detractors was that he, as a bishop, had signed the document establishing the age of 80 as the point of resignation.

Well, he signed that document as a bishop, true, but there was more than that in that document that included Latin Church disciplinary items.

And Pope Paul VI also signed the document - but was the first to ignore it when he reached the age of 80 and continued as Pope.

A bishop, if he wishes, should be able to stay in office until death - in accordance with ancient tradition.

Alex