www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News A Cheer and a Half for John Walker Lindh

Dear friends in Christ,

I find it difficult to understand how one can find admiration in Walker once he decided to take up arms with the Taliban. It appears this author does.

While the writer may think this was a noble and courageous move on Walker's part, we have known for years (1996?) of the Taliban's horrible oppression of the Afghan people under the guise of their so-called religous government, of which most Muslim countries did not support. Walker must have known the stuff that the Taliban was made of and willing joined it.

How many women did he cane for speaking above a whisper on the street? How many executions did he oversee in the soccer stadium?

I have many devout Christian friends who buck the status quo and live lives that go against the secular greed mentality in this country. It is not an easy thing to do. Yet they have not journeyed into the realm of fanaticism.

Yes, there is much need for Christians to live the way we believe, which counters much of our American culture. But, no, we should not look to the Walkers of the world to guide us.

Best wishes,
miriam

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: miriam ]

Dear Miriam,

Welcome to the Forum.

Your points are well made and I think quite pertinent. No matter what position is being supported, the use of this sad young man as an even oblique model, is not something that I find comfortabe as a Christian.

I, too, know many Christians who live lives of dedication to the law of Love despite the pressures of the secular society in which we live.
I think that there are a lot who do not proclaim their committment to Christain principles, they live it.

Again, welcome!

Steve

JOY!

Miriam wrote: "Yet they have not journeyed into the realm of fanaticism."

Miriam,

Yes. Fanaticism is the realm of fundamentalism. With all due regards to Abdur, I would agree that even Christians can be poor, if not fanatical, examples of their faith.

The Religious Right is often the pushers of a form of religion not necessarily Cathodox (a term coming from our friend, Serge) in this country. My father remembers starting each schoolday with a reading from the Bible and a prayer, all from the Protestants, of course. The issue of Evolution or Creationism is a dogma of fundamentalist/literalist Christians who really don't know how to think biblically. Each religion has its own brand of fundamentalism that tries to use legal and police means of the State to incur their Christian values and ideas upon all others, even those who have nothing to do with their silly ideologies. One doesn't have to run to Afghanistan to join a group of uncritical radicals. We have them in our own backyard. They might not kill to get their point across, but they will resort to the powers of the state and the court to secure their own brand of subtle oppression.

Fundamentalism is a characteristic of non-scholarly little minds that cannot comprehend complex realities. Everything is black-and-white or true-or-false. Little minds, whatever the religious persuasioin, often uses big guns to get their point across. This is the biggest danger - simplistic solutions.

Woman being beaten by Taliban religion police for showing her hand in public!
[Linked Image]

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Edwin ]

Edwin,

Your analysis of the small minded Fundamentalist in America is apt to a point. However, I don't understand the comparison to those I know and the Taliban. Could you enlighten me?

Are you suggesting that curbs on abortion is comparable to public executions?

Dan Lauffer

Dan wrote: "Are you suggesting that curbs on abortion is comparable to public executions?"

No.

There are many issues that fundamentalists and Cathodox agree on. I was pointing out how demands are made on others to accept a particular way of interpretation of scripture and their use of the state to protect that. The Orthodox Aleuts had to confront a state school (used by Protestant missionaries) that used the state police arm to ram a particular brand of Christianity up their ... My father grew up on a Protestant bible & prayer session every morning in a public school. They might not have beaten anyone in public or shot them at the local soccer field, but the method is the same. Your Jesus isn't my Jesus, therefore I will police you into accepting my Jesus. It's a difference in the 'degree' of enforcement or how far one will go to enforce their brand of religion X. What is the difference between confiscating a Greek Catholic temple in Eastern Europe and confiscating a Greek Catholic temple in Egypt? None. Our Lord said to "shake your sandals" if the message isn't accepted in a particular community, not to restrict their freedoms with laws and police actions because they refused to accept Him.

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Edwin ]

JWL was warned by the imam of his local masjid (mosque) that he was straying from the straight path. He very well knew that the ideology of the Taliban was rejected by both the progressive and conservative wings of the Ummah Islam. (Only three Islamic countries recognized the Taliban regime: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and United Emirates.) That fact should have been a clear indicator of the true nature of Talibanism, but JWL was set on proving that he was more Islamic than the Prophet himself.

A very misguided (and bloodthirsty) young man, indeed.

I am sure he rues the day that he rejected the admonitions of his imam.

But it is not too late for him even though he has followed the way of those who are apostates (the Taliban), but the Qur'an admonishes us to forgive those who have been drawn astray...

The Prophet (PBUH) writes:

"And whatever calamity befalls you is of your own making. And (yet) He goes on forgiving ...out of His mercy." Surah 42:30.

And we (Muslims) are admonished to forgive those who have gone astray.

The Prophet (PBUH) writes:

"But the one who bears (the wrong done to him) and FORGIVES, (let it be remembered that) surely to do so is a matter of great fortitude and resolve." Surah 42:43.

Just as Allah is merciful and oft-returning...."..for I am the Oft-Returning (with compassion and) the Ever-Merciful" Surah 2:160...Muslims must forgive the Taliban and the JWL's of this world and attempt to embrace them as brothers and draw them--gently--back to Islam.

Afghan Muslim women have been liberated from Shatain and from the heretical and apostate Taliban ( at the cost of much Muslim blood) and are returning to a dignified life and shown the respect that is their due as the daughters of God..."And the believing men and women are friends of one another,"... so,let us forgive their tormentors and re-educate them into the beliefs and practices of Islam and press on to a better future as servants of Allah.

"..it is better to forgive." Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).

Insh'allah

Abdur

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

I can see no difference at all in the mindsets of Christian heretics/fundamentalists, like the David Koresh cult, and Muslim heretics/fundamentalists, such as the Taliban.

Other than differences in theology and sacred texts, what real differences are there?

Last week I was able to do some research on Christian terrorist groups and...well...change the clothes and the sacred texts and these Christian fundamentalists might as well be Taliban and vice versa.

Diabolically, the Taliban condemned abortion (even the worst of God's children have some good qualities). but they seemed to have no moral qualms about abandoning Allah's little ones to death by starvation and disease.

O God...O God...help us all and protect us from those who have gone so far astray.

Abdur

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

FYI:

Per the "Burqua":

The Burqua system is neither Islamic or Arabic in origin, but it is Zorastrian. It was later adopted by the Persians and Byzantines (with modifications).

This system has never been adopted by the great majority of Muslim women. Actually, the Qur'an does not enjoin the use of the face veil, as a general practice.

However, the Qur'an does enjoin modesty upon both men and women.

Abdur

Islamic Fundamentalism: a political, and not a religious, movement.

Excerpts from some book reviews.

Militant Islamic fundamentalists blame the ills of their societies on the West and call for the overthrow of local governments and the resumption of Jihad against the "Infidels". Ambassador Hoveyda explores the historical and contemporary causes of the current wave of militant Islamic fundamentalism. Despite their terrorist attacks in the West, he also shows fundamentalists they are even more dangerous for Muslim countries that are desperately trying to catch up with the incipient global economy... read more

AN EASY MANUAL TO ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM, July 26, 2001
Reviewer: A reader from London England

The Broken Crescent: The Threat of Militant Islamic Fundamentalism By Fereydoun Hoveyda, Praeger.(Former Iranian diplomat).

This book is of great importance to all those who want to comprehend the roots and the scope of militant Islamic fundamentalism in our present time. The author dissipates the confusing clouds that hang over most of the texts published about Islam by so-called experts. For one thing, he rejects the gobble-de-gook wooden style of most academic writings. It is easily readable and understandable.

The book reminds us that Islam as one of the of the major world religions, turned "fundamentalist" around the 12th century and has been influenced by some degree of fundamentalism, though not always dominated by fundamentalism in all Muslim countries or among all Muslim groups.

Actually simple fundamentalism is found in almost all religions and "returning to the roots" of a religion does not imply militancy. The militants and the "official" clerics of Egypt's el-Azhar or Tunisia's Zeituni Islamic universities (for instance) share many current official interpretations of the Quran. But the latter do not invite the faithful to kill or commit other criminal acts as the former do.

Before the 12th century, the Muslim world was a relatively open society allowing speculative thinking and welcoming the classical cultures of antiquity, Greek, Persian, Indian, etc. Muslim scholars such as and scientists such as Avicenna or Averroes, flourished and produced an important body of work.

The triumph of fundamentalism stopped this and marked the beginning of a steady decline. Muslims rejected the science and philosophy they had developed. Their past work and knowledge was picked up by western universities and lead to the Renaissance in Europe. The author affirms that if fundamentalists had not won in the 12th century, the scientific and industrial revolutions would have happened in the Muslim world! He dubs as "unbearable" the cost of fundamentalism and its terrorist tactics is even more harmful. The leaders of this brand of super-fundamentalism, affirms the author, want to revive the Jihad in order to bring the whole world under their banner.

The book brushes up the history of militant fundamentalism and its revival by Khomeini after his seizure of power in Iran. In a way, American and other Western policies helped to achieve the success of militant fundamentalists in Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Hoveyda's narratives contain a wealth of information. He demonstrates with clarity that militant Islamic fundamentalism is essentially a political movement and not a religious one.

Although Islamic fundamentalism may pose a threat to the West, it will be more "lethal" to the Muslim world itself. Moreover, Islamic fundamentalism cannot answer the needs of Muslim countries in the coming century. On the contrary, it will push them further back. In order to prevent total decay, Muslim intellectuals should undertake a formidable cultural effort and reject old fundamentalist interpretations...
Hoveyda's work is a must read for all those interested in the question. As reviewer said: "Hoveyda has written the most sensible analytic book about the significance and the role of militant Islamic fundamentalism to appear so far." Indeed, this book is revealing... Guy Revol ++

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Thank you for posting a very perceptive essay. True Christianity is an ascetic religion. Read the lives of the saints, past and contemporary to see how we need to embrace a true understanding of evangelical poverty. He who would come after me, let him deny himself...

Yours in Christ,
Fr Serafim