www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall No Comment...

I certainly do apologize for the posting of the term "wacky" in a way where it could have been readed as seriously meant towards the Pope.

Axios

From a home-schooling Greek Catholic family, thanks for going off-topic and give us your blessing, Father! We started this week as well. I thought it would be nice if we got together on-line and shared home school ideas, curricula, etc. sometime.

As a geologist in my day job, there are significant weaknesses in both of the "traditional" schools of evolutionary theory, namely that of punctuated equilibrium heralded by the late Stephen Jay Gould and the old-time Darwinism.

The geologic record contains significant gaps and questions regarding evolution, and why some apparently successful and prolific species just vanish at times is still a matter of speculation. They took up smoking, I guess

But there is a definite sequence to the geologic column in any given location, formation X over formation Y, etc. How long it took those rocks to form is anybody's guess. Recent studies in subatomic physics indicates that matter may not be as stable as we once thought, so the fundamental basis of radioisotope dating, namely assuming steady-state radioactive decay of certain "tracer" isotopes in the rocks may be itself subject to greater innaccuracy than once believed.

The Bible is not a geology or paleontology text. The Bible is true, but not always accurate. The fundamentalists assume it is both true and accurate, namely the creation account is precisely of the duration of seven days. There is much more to take into account, including numerology, the four sources of Old Testament accounts (Yahwist, priestly, Elohist, Deuteronomist) giving different accounts, etc.


Even the late agnostic Carl Sagan of "Cosmos" fame admitted that some "transcendent thing or force" as he called it had to move the "primal cosmic mass" into the "Big Bang" and create the initial energy that brought the universe into being. I'll call that God and not a "force" or "thing".

If one believes ultimately in God, a God-created order and with it the transcendent immortal nature of the human soul, evolution should not be a scientific "bogey man" to run away from nor should we let the nitty-gritty details of either a purely scientific evolutionary interpretation of creation or a strictly literal Biblical interpretation of creation force us into an extremist corner.

As with many human scientific interpretations, there are points of creedence and points that are beyond the reasonable limits of catholic faith precisely because often those proffering the theories do not have or have denied their faith and are looking to science to replace the essentials of that faith.

Besides, days for God in creation can be as long as He likes...I'll take the interpretation offered by St. David the Psalmist as we pray in the First Hour in Psalm 89, "A thousand years to You are but a yesterday long past, a watch of night"

Greetings from Kansas, where now officially "alternate theories" besides evolution can be taught officially in public schools by vote of the State Board of Education (you may have heard about that).

[ 08-28-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

Dear Diak:

At my university, the student newspaper posed a question to students, "Do you believe in evolution?" One student replied, "No, because the earth is only 6000 years old; there hasn't been enough time for evolution to occur."
Here's a nice article to that addresses arguments from the young earth crowd:
http://www.talkorigins.org/pdf/faq-age-of-earth.pdf

As to the molecular details of biological evolution, I think we are still in the dark, but owing to genomic studies, amazing breakthroughs are now being made. I think that the Pope's key point is a beautiful one. We can be utterly fearless in the pursuit of knowledge because truth cannot contradict truth.

djs

Bless me a sinner, Venerable Father in Carmel!

Oh, O.K. I'll lift the excommunication, as you say . . .

But Axios had at least 60 days to recant, so why the rush?

We haven't had a good excommunication around here for some time.

I was just trying out one of those "tried and true" traditions . . .

But to ensure that the act is formally and finally quashed:

"Axios, you are hereby returned to the peace of the community of believers represented by this Forum and are forgiven each and any act by which this peace may have been disrupted. Embracing you as a brother, you are absolved of any and all excommunications and similar disciplines, arising from misunderstanding or not, pertaining to the Ecumenical Pontiff, Pope John Paul II. I hereby impart to you any portion of the Apostolic Blessing I received from His Holiness that is still left in me to impart."

Alex

I thank you, Alex. I am now required to make Novena?

Axios

Axios, no novenas, but you do have to pray 15 decades of the rosary in Latin and make the sign of the cross from left to right Don

Dear Axios,

Don is right!

And in saying the 15 decades, you are following the daily example of St Seraphim of Sarov, St Seraphim Vyritsky (who also prayed 1000 days and nights on a rock), St Seraphim Zvezdinsky, St Seraphim Zahorivsky and other Orthodox saints.

St Jonah Atamansky of Odessa prayed a Novena or nine nights over a girl born blind and her sight was restored on the morning of the tenth day.

The novena comes from the nine days of prayer the Apostles made prior to Pentecost.

In other words, keep your cynicism in your Orthodox pocket, Big Guy!

God bless,

Alex

Alex,

Just a little question here for you

How many St Seraphims are/were there Can you list them all

Angela

Dear Angela,

I thought I just did . . .

St Seraphim of Sarov (named for the Greek New Martyr St Seraphim the New of Phanarion) inspired the lives of the other three Seraphim.

Seraphim Zvezdinsky was in charge of the canonization process of Seraphim of Sarov, and took the name "Seraphim" when he became a monk and later an Archbishop. Zvezdinsky prayed the 15 decades of the Rosary, er, "Rule of the Mother of God" (sorry ) daily, as did all four Seraphims. Zvezdinsky also wore St Seraphim's Icon of the Virgin of Tender Feeling as his epicopal "Panaghia" or "All Holy" the medallion of the Incarnation of Christ or the Most Holy Mother of God every Eastern Bishop is supposed to wear.

Seraphim Vyritsky was so inspired by his patron and spiritual guide that he imitated his life to the letter, including the struggle or "Podvih" of praying for a thousand nights on a rock.

Alex

Dear Axios:

May I recommend the Novena to Our Mother of Perpetual Help?

A Western devotion to an invaluable Eastern ikon.


AmdG

--------------------------------------------------

Only those ??

Angela

Dear Angela,

There are fifteen others in the Calendar . . .

These four are my favourites.

Alex

Aaah
- I see - let the education continue

Angela

Alex, you have forgotten the most important Seraphims of all...the angelic choir of the seraphim....now those are the REALLY big ones!!! Hugs and kisses...by the way, what is behind those kisses my Ukie friends are always giving me??? THAT has taken some getting used to! hehehehe Don

The Ethiopians keep the feast of the Seraphim (the angels) on November 24th. A nice custom.