www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Poll on Church Stats

First: How many attend Divine Liturgy?
Second: How many families are on your rolls?
Third: How many baptisms do you have each year?
Four: What are your total expenditures per year including outside support?

Average attendance at DL single choice

1-15 (4%, 1 Votes)

16-50 (33%, 8 Votes)

51-100 (21%, 5 Votes)

above 100 (42%, 10 Votes)

Total Votes: 24 Voting on this poll ends: 07/30/06 05:23 PM

Number of families on roll single choice

5-25 (8%, 2 Votes)

26-75 (25%, 6 Votes)

76-150 (25%, 6 Votes)

above 150 (42%, 10 Votes)

Total Votes: 24 Voting on this poll ends: 07/30/06 05:23 PM

Number of baptisms per year single choice

0-5 (58%, 14 Votes)

6-10 (13%, 3 Votes)

11-20 (13%, 3 Votes)

above 20 (17%, 4 Votes)

Total Votes: 24 Voting on this poll ends: 07/30/06 05:23 PM

Yearly expenditures including mission support from outside and mission giving single choice

25,000-50,000 (8%, 2 Votes)

51,000-100,000 (33%, 8 Votes)

100,000-150,000 (21%, 5 Votes)

above 150,000 (38%, 9 Votes)

Total Votes: 24 Voting on this poll ends: 07/30/06 05:23 PM

Fascinating results so far. About as I expected but much much higher than Chris indicated that they would be. Fascinating.

CDL

CDL
What are we really looking at though? Can you break down the poll by Churches? How many Orthodox vs BC's and RC's? A comparison may help give a clearer picture.
One thing that seems to be very clear, however>> baptisms are way down!

Sam

There's the crux of the problem!

On the average, the Latin Church in the U.S. has been "producing" for the past 10 years between 900,000 and 1 million infant baptisms, clearly outpacing deaths.

If there are no adult conversions from other faiths (about 150,000 yearly), the sustenance and increase in the number of the faithful goes back to the basic: reproduction, which is a "captive" source of membership!

Although the Church in the U.S. has been aided, fortunately, by immigration from Latin America, particularly from Mexico.

Amado

Hi,

Which, a generation later, also helps the Baptisms stats.

Here is an idea: convince your youth that Hispanics are good marriage candidates.

Our culture has strong family values and we do have a significantly higher birth rate than most (if not all) ethnic groups in the U.S.

The 0-5 Baptisms a year is a really sad statistic.

At St. Paschal's we have Baptisms in Spanish every other week, and it is unusual to have less than 5 on any given week. It is not unheard of having three times that many. Yes, every other week.

Shalom,
Memo

Good point. I should have limited the poll to Eastern Catholics only. Sigh... Well, back to the drawing board.

CDL

Memo,

Just a simple question or two about this:

"At St. Paschal's we have Baptisms in Spanish every other week, and it is unusual to have less than 5 on any given week. It is not unheard of having three times that many. Yes, every other week."

1 how large is the parish, ie number of families?

2 are all the baptisms within the parish or also from families not registered in the parish?

Mostly I ask as to have a better view of the data. If 5 baptisms per week x 52 weeks, this comes out to a staggering 360 baptisms per year! I gather your parish is fairly large!

Steve

CDL,
What initially caught my eye as far as the poll questions go was the $$ and attendance results. I immediately thought they must be RC or Orthodox. I could be wrong, LOL, but I just assumed those numbers couldn't be ours

I wasn't criticizing. I think you are doing a fine job!

Sam

Sam,

Thanks for your patience with me. I'm trying to get a handle on this but having not limited the question to ECs I've probably skewed the results. I'll try again in a few days with a different poll. This is stuff the metropolia ought to be publishing on a regular basis.

CDL

CDL writes:
>>>Thanks for your patience with me...<<<

Hey, I'm no expert in this field.
We are ALL trying to get a handle on this thing. You are a blessing to this church. Thank you.

Sam

Perhaps we can rescue this rascal. Q. Are there any Roman Catholic findings in this poll? If so I would guess they reflect the larger numbers. If you are an RC we love you but for the value of the poll could you indicate what your numbers reported were? If no one responds to this request in a couple of days we MAY be able to assume that the rest are BC or EO.

As has been pointed out one should be alarmed at the high number of respondents (9 out of 16 so far) who indicate that they have experienced 5 or fewer baptisms. This always indicates a dying congregation. What are you prepared to do to help bring new life to your congregation?

For those experiencing higher numbers to what do you attribute that?

CDL

What? You are surprised that I ask a rhetorical question? There may be some surprises out there. There could be. Maybe God unfairly, by our standards, sends people by stork mobile to people who don't even try to evangelize.

CDL

A little analysis:

If my categories are correct and if most of the participants in this poll are EC or EO then an initial analysis is apt.

The categories: 1. The first generation has great energy. They have a mission and a vision for fulfilling it. They urge the priest forward. They build. They evangelized. They grow.

2. The second generation begins to rest upon the laurels of their parents generation. Some drift away from boredom. Some hold themselves to fairly high standards similar to their parents. Some even evangelize but most do not.

3. The congregation grows old together. They are more affluent and have put away some money. They are almost uniformly complacent. They know they aren't need but they like the familiarity of the setting and want a place to be buried. Every so often they get a twinge of conscience but they quickly put that to rest by the green sleeping powders that set in their bank accounts. They build nothing. They don't evangelize. They even express some irritation with converts.

4. They die out.

Looking at baptisms: If your church had less than 5 baptisms you are probably in category three heading for category 4. A majority of the respondants fit into this category. Look around at the average age of your congregation. Are you will to change your habits drastically? Are you willing to receive some help in order for you to be revived?

If you have between 6 and 20 you may well be in category 2. Now is the time for revival. The people may be open to it and want to begin growing again.

If you are EO or EC and have more than 20 per year you are probably growing and healthy. It is important to take a look at your strengths and continue working on them and look at a weekness and try to make it a strength instead. You are probably in a good place to begin the work to establish a mission congregation some place and to give some gifts to churches that are planting Churches or who are growing. Don't begin to rest on your laurels. Everytime you do well rejoice and set the bar higher.

CDL

Hi,

Well, that is an interesting question.

Officially, there are 6000 registered households.

I'd say about half of those are "active".

However, a good number of Hispanic households are not registered. The whole idea of parish registration is foreign to our culture. You belong to the parish where you live, you do not need to "sign up".

From my previous comment it follows that a good number of baptisms are for families not registered in any parish. Some of these families may be only nominally Catholic, but some of them are more than that.

Well, baptisms in English not always reach 5, but yes, I'd say 250-300 baptisms a year is a reasonable estimate.

Shalom,
Memo