www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall circumcisions and legal precedent ?

Monday, 20 February 2006


Dear Everyone,

The Chicago Tribune reported yesterday that a man is suing his ex-wife to prevent his 8 year old son from being circumcised.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0602190330feb19,1,5740635.story?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

What makes this case interesting is that many circumcisions are done to comply with religious law (in Judaism and Islam). I do know if the reason in this case is religion. However, if the judge rules in favor of the father, it could serve as precedent for the secular courts to outlaw circumcision even when the motive is religious. According to the article, that already happened in Britain in 1999.

It should also be recalled that, in 2004, the State of California ordered a Catholic organization to include coverage of birth control in its health insurance in order to comply with state law, even though birth control is against Catholic moral teaching. http://edition.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/01/church.contraceptives.ap/index.html

Just a little FYI that the secular law is, perhaps, showing less and less respect for religious beliefs and practices. And, perhaps, the Holy Spirit is letting us know that more might be on the way.

-- John

It is known that by circumcision on the day the Lord said - there is no pain. One of the Godmothers for our family worked with a Jewish physician for many years before he passed on. They always did the circumsions according to Jewish law and the babies were fine.

The other point to me is the health issue. It is much better to have the circumcision to help keep the area clean and prevent illness later on in life.

So this guy is not looking at the whole picture.

Well, the whole idea is really cutting edge . . .

Alex

It is well known that Jewish women have far lower rates of cervical cancer due to the fact that their husbands have been circumcised. It keeps the "area" clean and free from disease that would get between the skin fold. Another thing, I have a 4 year old son, there's no way he'd clean that thing on his own. How do those who haven't been circumcised keep from getting an infection or something. (I'm trying to keep this post as non-offensive as possible. I'm used to talking about all kinds of bodily functions and parts as if it were nothing.)

Dear Dr Eric,

When you use the word "nothing" in that regard, speak for yourself!

Alex

Greetings. Below are two links provided as references. The second is very graphic and may be too much for some, but I feel it is important to understand the pain an infant undergoes with modern hospital circumcision.

First, here is a link that describes problems associated with unskilled circumcision- the use of clamps:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=144127

Apparently, in the early years, the Mohel would remove basically the "tip" as fulfilling the Covenant of Abraham. This method caused very minor discomfort. However, in our current society, hospitals, doctors, and untrained Mohel use the clamps described in the article link above. This causes excess tissue to be removed, completely exposing the glans. It is extremely painful to the infant. In the US Navy hospital, where my son was born, parents are not permitted into the room to be with their son due to the loud screaming, and potential trauma to the parents. Now does that sound like the way we should treat our sons?

For those who wish to see an actual medical circumcision (as opposed to the ancient traditional method of tip only), please click here (but only if you have a strong stomach):

http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/

Can you honestly do this procedure to your child? Please understand this is the current medical method of circumcision, but not the ancient method as the Torah commanded and has been practiced virtually unchanged until around the 13th century (that was when the unexperienced Mohel started using the clamp, which results in an almost similar method as in the link above.

Sorry, and I mean no offense to anyone. I just feel that it is important we truly understand the current procedures as per the medical community and understand the differences with the well trained Mohel.

To me, religious and medical circumcision are as different as light and day, and I for one, do not see them as the same.

Michael

http://www.catholicsagainstcircumcision.org/

Circumcision should be outlawed on infants and children and certainly should not be covered by medical insurance or allowed in a hospital!!!

If male or female circumcision is desired for religious reasons, then they should be free to practice it on their own property at their own cost and their own liability.

If there is any parental religious dispute, then no circumcision until the child is old enough to give consent.

As I said "all kinds of bodily functions and parts." Since I was up to my elbows in the body of a dead guy I have really lost my sense of decorum. I have a story that is not fit for this forum, that illustrates this point. It involves one of the other students and her lack of regard for her cadaver. (Not what you think, but maybe close.)

Dr Eric

I understand what you mean . As a retired nurse I have also been exposed to all sorts of things as well - and yes - it does alter the way you respond .


First responding to Theophilus
As to Circumcision - here female circumcision is illegal !! Yes I did say that - it is cruel and it mutilates that which God has given. We do our best to see that young girls are not taken to another country for this unnecessary excessively cruel procedure - which in fact may also prove fatal

Here young boys are only Circumcised for religious reasons or when medically necessary.

My own feeling is that routine Circumcision is not required