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So djs, are you saying that contrary to the evidence of our senses, and all common sense, that synthetic waxes are better for us than the sweetly scented beeswax?
Sorry, I find that hard to believe, whatever scientific evidence you can quote.
-Daniel, more attuned to the intuitive

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ps

http://www.candlewic.com/candle-wax/pop-natural.asp

Among the natural/renewable candle waxes is this one:

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100% Soy Wax
Soy 120 & Soy 125 are made with, 100% natural soybeans that are domestically grown. Both products are manufactured meeting FDA and Kosher standards.
The candle equivalent of tofu! smile

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I dunno, I just read today that soy oils negatively affect sperm counts, and exclusive use of them would result in depopulation..
-Daniel, who values his virility

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are you saying that contrary to the evidence of our senses, and all common sense, that synthetic waxes are better for us than the sweetly scented beeswax?
Just a guess. The paraffins seem to be simpler in composition, and could be more easily made to burn cleanly (less particulates, free-radicals). It's at the level of trace compounds, not major constituents, that carcinogens, etc. become an issue.

Similarly, it is trace constituents that give rise to your intuitive ideas related to, sensory evidence. This evidence may be good, and a programmed survival skill, but it probably doesn't have much to do with clean burning (particulates, and free-radicals) or the carcinogens at trace levels that are the putative health hazards. I didn't find anything on the actual combustion products yet, so it's just a guess. Btw what is "synthetic" about paraffin?
Your story about the appeal of beeswax versus paraffin is interesting, but I wouldn't call it common sense - which, AFAIK, has it that diamonds, for example, are very nice.

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Poetic truth or scientific evidence? That is the question: Give me poetry or give me death!
While I could in good conscience describe my true love's scent as like unto a sweet beeswax candle, if I compared it to a paraffin candle, I'm afraid I'd end up on the couch for the night!
-Daniel, unrepentantly poetic [see GK Chesterton]

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Yes, I've noticed how you wax poetic with Dan L. :p

But your poetry against paraffins could apply to diamonds, which my wife likes very much. I do not eschew poetry, nor scientific evidence. (It was involved, I gather in saving your life, and has thus had a strong impact on your virility.)

And I did a very quick look at studies on soy phytoestrogens - several publications in the last couple of years. In animal models at moderate consumption levels that have salutary effects, for example, in preventing prostrate cancer, it does not appear to have negative consequences on testicular function. But google, on the other hand was full of stories. And they weren't especially poetic either.

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Yes that is right; I am a Luddite who has been humbled by modern medicine saving my life; I haven't figured out how to balance these two facets of my life yet, but I do know that I value my "testicular function", as you so unpoetically put it. biggrin
The points you make, as always, are interesting and well-thought out. Still, that petro candles might be healthier than beeswax is so counter-intuitive that I will wager that this will be like so many "scientific" surprises, and will be later proven false by "further studies"; think about how many times this has happened in our lifetime.
-Daniel

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I wouldn't take the wager, because the problem is so complicated. It hinges not immediately on the contituents of the candles but what happens to them in the flame. It's an interesting question; I wouldn't be surprised to find that this Dutch group is already busy, in further studies, comparing various candles and incense, so we may get to know the actual results.

Your venture to strike a balance between ludditism and technology - techno-suspicion and techno-faith are very interesting to me; maybe you'd like to talk more about it in a new thread.

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yes, I saw a similar "study" done in Ireland. I wonder if they have done a study to show that sitting in a bar or a pub with the smoke, and the beer would be harmful or not????

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Of course such studies have been done, Mike C. :rolleyes: Ever hear of second-hand smoke?
And why the quotes around "study"?

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I am not so sorry to say that I adore the incense. It is part of the tradition, symbolizing to me the mystery of heaven. It's part of the mysticism that I love about the whole of Eastern Catholicism.

I do agree about the beeswax candles though. I do sympathize with those with allergies, but the use of incense is tradition, used long before us and most likely will be in use long after our passing.


Torn betwixt body and soul; somewhere between heaven and earth; is where the penitent but chained sinner weeps. -Errai, "Our Friend Errai", Short story I have not finished.
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Originally posted by djs:
Of course such studies have been done, Mike C. :rolleyes: Ever hear of second-hand smoke?
And why the quotes around "study"?
I think Mike was asking about whether or now the beer would be harmful to consume, due to all the smoke in a bar.

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I wonder if they have done a study to show that sitting in a bar or a pub with the smoke, and the beer would be harmful or not????

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Well of course officially smoking in Ireland's pubs and bars is now banned - but knowing the Irish they'll get a way round it biggrin

Seriously though - yes I'm certain that there could be a problem here though how much is down to the charcoal and how much is down to Incense I don't know.

Some charcoal just seems to give off more smoke than others.

As for incense - well mine comes from a ROCOR Monastery in England and seems to be a much higher quality than some others - I bought some in France earlier this year - and it is in seed form - melts everywhere and does not really burn frown - very little 'smell' from it frown .

Back to candles - we used to use Oil Candles on our Altar [ don't shudder please - there is a draft problem on our Sanctuary and the old ladies that did our Altar Linen were not happy about the state of the linen with candle wax everywhere - a clean Altar Cloth for every Mass was really getting a wee bit much for them -16 Altar cloths a week !!!! ] so we switched to Oil candles - problem solved , yes we had tried Glass plates under the candles - but nothing seemd to work . I kept muttering beeswax - but of course that's Eastern - so I was not listened to smile

Now we are back to 'real' candles again but the new candlesticks do have bases which will catch the drips from the candles - but I would much prefer the 'warm' smell of beeswax.

Anhelyna

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Now we are back to 'real' candles again but the new candlesticks do have bases which will catch the drips from the candles - but I would much prefer the 'warm' smell of beeswax.

Anhelyna
The Latin Rite church where I am organist uses beeswax candles with followers. When the followers are fitted properly, they don't seem to drip.

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I definitely think that paraffin candles not only smell worse but would also emit far more volatile organic compounds (VOCs) and semi-volatile organic compounds (SVOCs) because of their synthetic composition of complex petroleum hydrocarbons as well as impurities inherent in any refining process. The PAHs (polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons) emitted by combustion of synthetics are well documented.

But all organic chemistry aside, what happened to the very profound significance of using what God Himself has made through His wondrous creation, such as bees and the fruit of their labor, beeswax, and offer it back to Him, rather than what man makes with an enormous amount of impact associated with it (refineries)?

Exposure to a few hours a week compared to what one gets from household chemicals, industrial or municipal air pollution, and certainly filling up the gas tank (direct exposure to high levels of benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, xylene, methyl-tert butyl ether, 1,2-dichloroethane, ethylene dibromide, 1,2-4 and 1,3-5 trimethylbenzene, etc.) is completely negligible to church from any coherent risk-based exposure analysis.

Ancient aromotherapy made use of both incense and beeswax.

Without much breeze, beeswax doesn't drip very much. Yet another reason to go with the bees. smile

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