www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall New Fatima Basilica

Here's the story from a secular source. http://the-news.net/cgi/story.pl?title=F�tima%20to%20become%20interfaith%20shrine&edition=727 hope this link works.

Our Lady has promised us that the dogma of the Faith will be preserved in Portugal (insinuating that in all/most other places, the dogma of the Faith will not be preserved, but I digress...), not that heteropraxis and structural abominations like the new "basilica" wouldn't also take root in the holy nation of Portugal.

Logos Teen

Actually, as ugly as the proposed structure is, that would cause me to avoid it. However, the site you posted - belonging to the Fatima Crusaders - is the child of Father Gruner, cited in the article. Gruner has been embroiled w/ the Vatican for some years now, initially with regard to his insistence that the Vatican had falsified Lucy's reaction to the Papal consecration of the world vs Russia specifically (e.g., whether it fulfilled Our Lady's request or not).

Gruner is so far off the reservation that even EWTN (that somewhat less than liberal bastion of Catholicism) has been critical of him - and vice versa (sorry if the EWTN characterization offends anyone's sensibilities, I'm not a fan).

Bottom line, I would take the "press release" with several grains of salt.

Many years,

Neil

And, having now read the secular article, there is apparently some truth to the whole story, which leaves me no closer to endorsing Gruner's reaction.

I have to say that the excerpt from the official statement, quoted in the secular press, has a certain resonence of reality, simplistic, but ...

"An official statement put out by the Congress called for a non-proselytising approach by all religions. "No one religion can irradiate another" it said " or strengthen itself by downplaying others and an open dialogue is the way to building bridges and tearing down walls of centuries of hate. What is needed is that each religion be true to its faith integrally and treat each religion on the same footing of equality with no inferior or superiority complexes." It emphasised that the secret to peace amongst all religions is admitting that contradictions exist between creeds but to concentrate on what unites them as opposed to what separates them. "
(emphasis mine)

It seems to me that those are precepts that have been posited here on any number of occasions.

Many years,

Neil

Apparently he is Trad; however, I would find him just as unpalatable an individual to partner with as I would Gruner - opposite ends of the spectrum, but equally extremist in their views.

Many years,

Neil

Actually, Depuis a very reliable source. Just because you do not like him. He is a Jesuit theologian -- just because you do not like his views, does not undermine his ability to relate news.

Hmmm. There are one or two issues underlying the discussion. Authentic beauty and the Faith are closely related - building a monstrosity (and I've not yet looked at the pictures of the proposed new basilica)and calling it a place of worship says something unpleasant about the faith of those responsible, and will have an unpleasant effect on those who willy-nilly use the building. By the same token, psuedo-icons are destructive of the Faith.
If nothing more than a personality conflict is involved, it is probably true that someone I don't like can convey the news as well as someone I do like (I've never even heard of Dupuis before, so I've no personal feeling one way or the other). If, on the other hand, a news-man does not understand the Faith, or holds heretical opinions, he is unlikely to be a reliable source of information about the Faith, or about Faith-related matters. An amusing case in point has to do with canonizations. The news broadcasters invariably claim that the Pope has "made somebody a saint". This ridiculous phrase has passed into Catholic use. But ridiculous is what it is. The Pope (and others) can recognize someone's sanctity, but certainly cannot create sanctity when sanctity is not there already - otherwise the Pope could make us all saints and save us the bother! Incognitus

Dear Friends:

As I understand it, the new church of the Holy Trinity, they never call it a basilica, is to be built along one side of the Basilica.

I must assume that the church is being built in this fashion so as not to visually interfere with the old Sanctuary.

It seems that they are planning it more like a conference centre than a church.

Though, they have made extensive plans for chapels of reconciliation.

The sacrament of reconciliation is a major part of the Fatima experience and considering the volume of people who come to the Shrine, anything that improves this is a blessing.

Priests have told me stories of people kneeling down in front of them in the square asking for confession.

It is a pity though, about the style of building.

I have yet to comprehend why contemporary architects cannot come to an understanding when designing buildings that are attached to older structures.

All I can say is that I believe they purposely make artistic statements for their own glory at the expense of the inherited artistic tradition.

Everyone wants to discover America.


defreitas

I am told that there has been a denial by the Vatican of the "inter-faith shrine" concept, but I haven't been able to nail a website/press release. Anyone?

Neil

Well, at least the new Los Angeles cathedral will no longer be the ugliest church in Christendom.

Here is a confirmation of the Vatican's denial:

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=26104

You have to be a subscriber (which I'm not) to access the whole article. It is clear from the brief summary that the Vatican doesn't support the inter-faith shrine.

In Christ,
Anthony

Just checked the website-
Yes,very strange indeed. Sorta looks like a dryer vent I just installed in me window!
Hmmmm?

Sam

Those new churches reminded me of first part of this website


Liturgy for Ignoramuses
http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/archives/003990.php#003990

OH !!!

There is only one possible response to that

Is Outrage !!!


but I did like it

Anhelyna