www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Democrat response to the State of the Union..

The Gov. of the Commonwealth of Virginia, Tim Kaine is Catholic. I thought that would be a cool factoid to share. He even talked about his missionary work he did as a young man in his Democratic response to the State of The Union Address last night. The new Catholic guys on the supreme court (what, 5 out of 9 now? that's awesome). Awesome stuff! A generation ago JFK met so much opposition for being Catholic. Today, Catholics are taking the political world by storm!
Ok, that's my kudos for the day.

And imagine this . . .

Democrats striving to regain the “Catholic Vote.” Rest of story here [catholicnewsagency.com] .

Now, the "Catholic Vote" seems to have materialized from nowhere, given the "anti-Catholic" bigotry in America not so long ago.

Granted there are about 65 million Catholics in the U.S., that number represents only about 22% of the total population.

Apparently, the re-election of Pres. Bush with the support of the "conservative right" has been linked to the estimated 52% of Catholic voters swinging to the Republicans.

Then, Pres. Bush starts "stuffing" the U.S. Supreme Court with 2 new Catholic justices (including Chief Justice Roberts!), thus "unintentionally" (intentionally?) making the majority in the Highest Court of the land Catholic (5 of 9), unprecedented in U. S. history! His brother, Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida and his Cuban exile wife, both "devout" Catholics, must be pleasantly amused.

If Tim Kaine, the newly-installed Democratic Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia, is also a "devout Catholic," so is Democratic and House Minority leader Rep. Nancy Pelosi, who now proposes to "recapture" the "Catholic Vote" by finding ways for the Democratic Party to talk about "faith and morals!" Unwittingly, Rep. Pelosi has "indicted" the "liberal" stance of Catholic Senators Ted Kennedy and John Kerry! :p

The 3 branches of the U.S. Government have been clearly "infiltrated" by Catholics of all stripes! Never the mind that American politics will be transformed into mud-slinging between and among Catholics?

Are we in a Catholic rennaisance of sorts in the U.S.?

Amado

Amado, perhaps that was what I was eluding to.
Interesting though that we can witness the government being shaped by the people. I have some other cool thoughts. Interested, pm me.

Ok - so he's a Democrat and a Catholic. Where does he stand on critical human life issues? Does anyone know? How one regards the crisis of life ethics and the fundamental lack of solidaity with the weakest and most vulnerable within society (of which unborn human life is the largest and most exploited subset) is more of a measure of one's status as an authentically Catholic politician than mere membership at a specific parish while holding or running for office. I want to know if he has the courage of a Bob Casey of PA or not. If he's just another Kerry, Kennedy or Palosi, then to heck with him. I've got no use for so-called "Catholic" politicians who exploit their religious credentials for political gain while completly undermining what is most fundamental about their faith - the sanctity of human life from conception to natural death.

Does anyone know? As a former resident of the Commonwealth, I'm very curious.

Pirohy:

Yes, I am interested. Please shoot your PMs to me anytime!

Are you suggesting that the U.S. is the first nation to achieve the ideals of a "government of the people, by the people, and for the people"?

Very interesting!

Amado

Dear Gordo:

Gov. Kaine's public life has just started and, probably a few, except his closest confidants, know about his pro life stance.

This Pres. Bush could be "more Catholic" than him!

Last night in his State of the Union address, Pres. Bush spelled out his view very clearly, paraphrasing: ". . . that human life is a gift from our Creator; it must not be bartered, debased, or destroyed from conception to natural death!" echoing pretty much the Catholic Church's position!

Amado

There was actually an interesting opinion piece in the most recent edition of The Economist which touched on this very subject. The article was written obviously before the confirmation of Judge Alito, but with the assumption he would not be blocked.

The article described the majority Catholic Supreme Court as in their words more of a swansong than an arrival. It said the parallel America that produced so many Catholic intellectuals (Catholic schools and youth organizations) has largely been eroded by the move from urban areas to the suburbs. It said what is distinctive about Catholicism in this country is becoming much less pronounced as alliances are forged between conservative Catholics and Evangelicals and liberal Catholics with liberal Protestants.

It noted with irony the most bitter opponents of Judge Alito have been fellow Catholics (Durbin, Kennedy, Kerry, Leahy, etc.)

I would post the full text but I believe it is copyrighted as I only have access through my subscription.

Andrew

Dear Andrew:

Exactly my point!

There is no "monolithic" Catholic vote in this country and anywhere else in the world! In the U.S., it is just a minority, although it becomes significant as, probably, a 10% swing vote in certain areas.

However, it is just interesting to note HOW current political pundits assign "the Catholic vote" some importance in U.S. politics nowadays.

Perhaps, if the total U.S. population increases to 70% or 80% Catholic, then we could talk about the "Catholic vote." But even then, in countries with an overwhelming Catholic majority, Catholics are politically divided!

Is this phenomenon limited to the U.S., or what?

Amado

Amadeus

I have heard a lot about the importance of the swing vote, and I think what is creating this swing vote is the shifting loyalties of Catholics who were once solidly Democratic. It�s interesting that I�ve actually heard very little about the Catholic majority on the Supreme Court as an issue of importance in and of itself. I think people are just focused on the ideologies of the justices, and their actual confessional allegiances are really not that big of a concern. It�s a major change from when my Father�s ancestors converted and at the time such a thing was considered a major betrayal and almost an un-American action.

It will be interesting to see what happens. In many ways though I think the high tide of Catholic influence in our culture and politics may already have crested. In particular I�m thinking of figures like Fr. Maurice Dorney, Fr. John Corridan, Archbishop Fulton Sheen and so on. They wielded enormous influence in their time, perhaps completely out of proportion with what the Catholic population of America was like. I don�t think you will ever see something again like Cardinal Dougherty being able to effectively hold Hollywood hostage, at least at the local level, and have them come calling for his favor. Some people point out Kennedy as a watershed, not of the ascendancy of Catholic power but its real decline. I think the latter view holds a fair amount of merit.

The oft mentioned and widespread divergence of the laity and the hierarchy on the social teachings of the church also clouds the matter and makes it harder to identify what a �Catholic vote� would really mean. I think this disconnect is probably what led Catholic Biblical scholar Luke Timothy Johnson to describe the Roman Catholic Church as the largest mainline Protestant denomination in the United States.

It�s difficult for me to say, because I don�t know about enough about the electorates in other Catholic countries. I gather two solidly Catholic countries, Poland and Spain, are going through some major shifts right now.

I think the U.S. has always been different politically though going back to the days of Bishop Ireland, Cardinal Gibbons and the whole Americanism controversy. The church could be identified with Democracy here, but often in other places was seen as royalist or authoritarian. Here it was against the establishment and not part of it. That�s why I think that while there is a history of anti-Catholicism in the United States, there has never been the type of internal anti-clericalism that has existed in places like Mexico, France and Italy. The pedastry scandal perhaps in some ways has changed that.

Regardless of all of this, I am very glad to see both Justices Roberts and Alito confirmed. One of my main hopes for a Bush presidency was that we would get a solidly conservative Supreme Court. I think that will have long term positive effects for our country. I shudder to think what the court would be like if a Democrat had been elected.

Andrew

I live in Virginia and paid attention to all three candidates during the election cycle (the D & R parties were the frontrunners and the third party candidate (who is staunchly pro-abortion) did not have a chance). Tim Kaine seems an honest man, but during the election cycle gave mixed messages on abortion. He says he is pro-life and I give him great credit for working (as Lt. Gov.) to enact a ban on partial birth abortions in Virginia (although the courts knocked it down because it lacked an exemption for the �health� of the mother). That caused him not to get the endorsement of NARAL, one of the major pro-abortion groups.

Yet during the campaign he pledged that he would respect existing laws on abortion and not try to restrict it further. In the conservative areas of Virginia he ran commercials indicating he was pro-life and called for things like stronger parental notification for minors seeking abortion. Yet in the more liberal areas of Virginia he ran commercials sort of kind of saying he was pro-choice (without actually saying so but using the �I�m personally opposed but respect the right of Virginia women to choose� type language).

My guess is that he probably is personally pro-life but didn�t feel that he could run as a pro-life Democrat. It is my opinion that running as a staunch pro-lifer would have made him more attractive.

Don�t judge him by the bland speech he gave last night. That was obviously written for him by the Democrat party leaders in Washington. In his campaign speeches and interviews as Lt. Gov and then during the campaign he came off much better. Since Virginia only allows one consecutive term for its governor I am praying and hoping that he will find a way to be more aggressively pro-life, like the excellent late Governor Casey of Pennsylvania.

The good news here is that for the first time in ages we had a race between one candidate who was staunchly pro-life and another (Kaine) who was at least leaning pro-life. That is progress!

This week we mark both the State of the Union Address and Groundhog Day.

One is about a hibernating and rather loathsome little beast not smart enough to stay out of traffic. The other day is about a groundhog.

Rep. Charles Rangel got it right. When asked what he thought about Bush, Rangel replied, "Well, I really think he shatters the myth of white supremacy."

Evo Morales, Michelle Bachelet, Hugo Chavez, Jose Luis Rodrigo Zapatero, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, Kateryna Samoilyk...our Catholic vote marches on.

Dear Bob you said:

"One is about a hibernating and rather loathsome little beast not smart enough to stay out of traffic. The other day is about a groundhog."

I say:

You seem to forget George Bush is president of the U.S.A. and therefore leader of the world... voted in of course, by people such as me. Stop the course insults! It only reflects on you.

Zenovia

Bob,

As a union organizer, you understand the importance of solidarity. Name one Catholic democrat on a national level that demonstrates authentic solidarity with those who are most in need of protection from the industrial abortion complex - the unborn. At least President Bush knows when to take a stand on important issues, rather than pandering to what is most loathsome and beastly within American culture.

Perhaps you should hibernate for a while on that.

Gordo

Dear Mr. Rossi,

While this may not be my forum to moderate, I must say, as a poster here, that I truly mourn a generation of Americans that consider themselves practicing Christians, but have not learned to be respectful or charitable to authority, and who choose to ignore the very principals set forth by our CHRIST whom we profess, when discussing our leaders who have been voted into office.

I do not think that you would have heard Jesus Christ, His foster father St. Joseph, the Blessed Virgin Mary, his disciples, or any of the Saints and Fathers of the Church which we venerate speak in such a demeaning manner of even the most loathsome and pagan leader of their day.

Whether or not we agree or disagree with our leaders, and whether or not we claim sympathy with one political party or another, we should thank God that all our leaders so far, Democrat AND Republican, believe in God and His Son. As such, they are our brethren in our Lord as well as our voted leaders, and we would do good to follow our Lord's commandment to 'love our neighbors' and to honor them as is our tradition and patrimony.

Disagreements can be articulated in ways which are flattering to our Christian heritage and not demeaning to it. Thank you.

Sincerely in Christ,
Alice

Well stated, Alice!

Many of Bob Rossi�s posts have been extremely uncharitable. If he believes that his positions on these issues have merit, surely he can find a way to present them based upon that merit. Resorting to childish name-calling only turns people away from anything he has to say. If it continues, Mr. Rossi�s unchristian behavior will earn him a �time out�.

Admin