www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Guess who is Happy with the Election

Gordo,

I think they do. I can't imagine why but what else are we to conclude. Perhaps moral cowardice makes one suicidal. But why don't these people go live as a Dhimmi in Saudi Arabia or Sudan.

That is not to say that the immorality in this country makes me long for something to come along that would convert the nation. But somehow, bin Laden's vision of Ummah does not inspire much confidence.

CDL

That is a WHOLE conversation unto itself!

My guess is that it would cover the range of topics from European imperialism, the export of immorality, the establishment and protection of the nation of Israel, etc etc etc.

If ever there was a geo-political gordian knot, this was it! (Maybe it takes a sword to cut through it... ;-))

Gordo (not to be confused with Gordian, although I do tend to be tied up in knots at times :p )

Brian,

Do you actually believe that an outstanding American like Mr. Limbaugh would do such a thing? Most of my very liberal friends disagree strongly with the conservative philosophy that he espouses but they also believe him to be honest and honorable. I am rather surprised that you could consider him (a fellow American who holds different political views then you do) to be more likely to create such a tape than one of the terrorists (that have pledged his live to kill us simply because we are not Muslim).

As to the idea that voting for Democrats is a vote for the terrorists such a phrase is simplistic but it does have a kernel of truth in it. Many leading Democrats campaigned that we should simply end the effort to finish the liberation of Afghanistan and Iraq from the tyrants who ruled those countries and bring the troops home. It should not be a difficult to realize that such a course of action would be a gift to the terrorists since those nations are not strong yet enough to stand on their own feet. If anything my criticism of President Bush in this effort is that he has not used enough force. You have to totally destroy the enemy to break his will. Then you have to take 20 years to rebuild those nations (it really took 20 years to rebuild Germany and Japan). We must be like the Samaritan, not like the priest and the Levite.

John

John,
I cannot understand how anyone who hears Limbaugh's rhetoric , abusive and personal as it is, could consider the man honorable or an outstanding American.. He may be personally but the his image which he egregiously puts forth is of a personal and bullying nature and is a quite toxic form of "conservatism" and frankly, is light years from the intellectual and honorable conservatism of someone like William F Buckley who Although I completely disagreed with him politically, retained an intellectual basis for his arguments and was never personally offensive or toxic as Mr Limbaugh is in his public persona. I don't "get" how one could see him as an "outstanding" American?? Seeing the nature and presentation of his program, I don't see how anyone could say that with a straight face frankly. I believe indeed that it is that kind of toxic "conservatism" that was rejected last Tues by many whom one would usually put in the GOP camp.


As far as the Adminstration's Iraq policy and the neoconservatives who support it, oldtime Reagan conservatives like Richard Viguerie have come out against the "Nation Building" policies in Iraq and are calling for a return to fiscal conservatism (see Mr Viguerie's book "Conservatives Betrayed: How Big Government Republicans Hijacked the Conservative Cause") It looks like the GOP is going to go through the process of having to redefine their identity after this major defeat as is quite typical in the cases of political parties which have suffered a major loss (I think of the Labour party after the 1979 election)

Brian,

Have you ever actually listened to one of his shows?

I've been a listener for 15 years and, while I have NOT always agreed with him, nothing you say comes close to the truth of the matter. I often find his commentary (and even sense of humor) to be insightful.

Gordo

Gordo, I have listened and watched and I don't happen to agree with you about him. We will have to agree to disagree which is very common between us

No problem, bro...

Rush Limbaugh is not the tie that binds us!

Peace,

Gordo

Conservatism wasn't rejected. Bush has not been a conservative in anything but cutting taxes and, mildly, prosecuting terrorists.

Corruption, overspending, the McCain Feingold bill, failure to stop illegal immigration...

These were what voters were angry about.

Limbaugh, for all his personal faults, is not hateful. One can't say the same about those who disagree with him politically. He does prove a point, that liberals have no sense of humor. What's more, he goes after Republicans as well as Democrats. Seriously, the guy sells entertainment, nothing more.

Actually, candidates who were strongly anti-illegal immigrant were either voted out or not elected including one who was actually a member of the Minutemen.

Gordo,

this was the best contribution on this thread! AMEN and AMEN!!!!!

Those who sow to the wind will reap the whirlwind.
I'm afraid we are only going to get what is our due. Unfortunately the many will have to suffer the folly of the few.
Stephanos I
God have mercy on us!
And PS I would not give much credence to Rush Limbaugh he is way too liberal!

John,

I hate Rush Limbaugh, and I detest his opinions. I have listened to his show off and on throughout the years. Yes, he is intelligent and crafty; yes, he can be insightful; but his political agenda and attitude have become so intensely repugnant to me that I hate him and I detest his opinions. No, those are not Christian sentiments; but those are my sentiments anyway.

Do I think Mr. Limbaugh would stoop to such a tactic as described above ? Probably not, in my opinion: I think he is too crafty to be caught in something like that.

-- John

Thank you. I mean that. Thank you very much for saying that, Gordo. As of the few resident liberals on this forum, I am gladdened to hear one of the conservatives say that it is Christ that binds us together. God bless.

-- John

You know, most times I keep quiet on political conversation here at the Byzantine Forum. I come here to learn and discuss and fellowship and pray for matters regarding to Jesus Christ; I don�t come here for politics. Besides, most of the Americans at this Forum seem to be conservative Republicans, while I am a moderate independent who is increasingly becoming a liberal and a Democrat. So, why start fights ?


But this post is so starkly inaccurate and offensive that I have decided to respond.

I presume that the original poster was referring to the Democratic Party in the U.S. when writing "the immoral factions in our country."

First, allow me to say that I used to be a conservative Republican. I grew up under Ronald Reagan, and I liked his mix of inclusiveness, common sense, strength and leadership that seemed to mark most of his policies.

Since then, especially with the rise of ideologues and operatives such as Rush Limbaugh, Ralph Reed and Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, et al., I have witnessed the Republican party gradually abandon the "big tent" philosophy that welcomed diversity to a narrow-minded and polarizing philosophy of hard core conservative views. The epitome of this process has been, in my opinion, the present administration of George W. Bush. Over the last 12 years, and especially in the last 6 years, the Republican Party has cynically used and seduced leaders and believers in the Church for political support; it has become financially and morally corrupt; it has espoused big government spending to catastrophic levels; it has neglected the security of the southern border of America; it has simultaneously thwarted any effort to legalize the millions of undocumented workers in this country who are thereby being exploited and are becoming a nation within a nation or, at least, a caste; and, in sum, it has generally lost sight of everything that Ronald Reagan and the Republican party of his era seemed to stand for: a big tent of all people, with common sense and strength and leadership. Seeing on national television the latest body count from Iraq while watching the Republican Chairman of the Congressional Caucus for Missing and Exploited Children, Mr. Foley, resign because he seduced teenage boys was the surreal, Dada-esque summary of what has become of the Republican Party.

And then there is Iraq.

I support our troops. How can I not? Some of them are my own family. (One nephew is getting ready for his second tour in Iraq.) And all of them are my countrymen and countrywomen.

That said, I have been against the war in Iraq since before the invasion. I think George W. Bush lied and exploited the fear, anger and ignorance of most Americans to convince them that Saddam Hussein's stalinist regime was the same thing as the Osama Ben Ladden�s fanatical Muslims. The two were complete opposites; but it was a brilliant, effective, evil lie that cemented domestic support for the conquest of Iraq. .

And so there we are there, in a situation that has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children; that has cost the lives of thousands of U.S. and Coalition troops, that has maimed (permanently) thousands of others, both Americans, allies and Iraqis; that has sundered Iraqi society into civil war and mayhem; that has polarized the Muslim world into fanatical hatred toward the United States; and that has transformed Iraq into the single greatest training ground for terrorists in the world.

That plus Mr. Bush's pathetic control of America's borders (especially with Mexico) tells me that plenty of terrorists are in training in Iraq and are on their way into the United States (or they are already here) to wreak their evil. Mr. Bush has created what he claims to be against, and now (in my opinion) it is a matter of time till the United States is hit again.

And why? Why did Mr. Bush invade Iraq? I believe he lied about his stated reasons (weapons of mass destruction; which were never found; ties to Al Qaeda, which did not exist, etc.). Thus, I must conclude there are other reasons for the invasion. And, the most likely reasons seem to be the petroleum of Iraq, vengeance against Saddam Hussein, attempting to remake the Middle East into something like the United States by conquest (which Mr. Bush has called �liberation� and which in other quarters is called "imperialism") and, perhaps, to look good in his daddy's eyes.

And, to my shame, I must admit that I actually voted for George W. Bush in 2004. I believed he would put anti-abortion judges on the U.S. Supreme Court, and I thought he had the testicular grit and intestinal fortitude to win the war (because I though Kerry was a wussy and because we had to try to win now that we are there). To his credit, Mr. Bush did put anti-abortion judges on the U.S. Supreme Court; but he has failed at everything else. And our problems worsen while hundreds more die due to his wars, his ineptitude and his policies.

In sum, I find George W. Bush to be one of the most evil, catastrophic presidents in American history. It is a singular effort for me to pray for that man (in the Divine Liturgy, when we pray for our leaders and government officials) because I hate him and because I hate what he has done to my country and Iraq and the world. I also find that he has presided over the final devolution of the Republican Party from its glory under Ronald Reagan to its present bloody, sordid, venal reality. Where once there was Ronald Reagan and his "big tent" for all Americans who supported common sense, there is now George W. Bush: who was quoted as saying that he would continue to support the war in Iraq even if only he, his wife and his pet dog, Barney, supported him.

Now, as for the Democrats. The original poster (apparently) referred to them as "the immoral factions in our country." I trust that, after the forgoing survey of recent Republican failures, the term can be seen as applying to Republican leadership as well. I remember full well the Democrats under Bill Clinton and their failings. Overall, the last 12 years have taught me what the proverb says, "Put not your trust in princes." But, at least the Democrats (who can be just as immoral, illegal, and corrupt as Republicans) are motivated to stop the Republicans. And, in my opinion, the present Republican Party needs to be stopped. And, thankfully, by the last election, they have been stopped: at least in the Congress.

-- John

John,

While I do not agree with every opinion given by Mr. Limbaugh he does give voice to many of the opinions that I hold. I strongly believe that if America would embrace the conservative philosophy we would be a much better country.

Do you also hate me?

You might consider that one can hold positions similar to those of Mr. Limbaugh and still be a Christian.

John