www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Catechism of the Catholic Church

Dear Friends,

Christ is risen!
Truly He is risen!

Do you use the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

I use the CCC as a reference book especially in matters of morals, i.e., abortion, war, euthanasia.

Paul

Dear Paul,

I certainly read my copy of the CCC but it is incomplete with respect to the theological perspective of the Eastern Churches - e.g. there is nothing on Theosis in it.

The CCC has excellent sections on the Jesus Prayer and on the Eastern Churches, however.

It is good, but not good enough from our perspective.

Alex

460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":"For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."

Dear Alex,

The word Theosis is not in the CCC, but there is mention of being "sharers in the divine nature." See above.

There are a few other similar citations in the CCC. No where close to the Eastern Fathers teaching on Theosis, of course.

I'll leave it to you to decide if there is some evidence of Theosis teaching based on the citation from the CCC. I'm interested in your opinion.

Paul

Brother Paul,

I purchased one a couple of months ago and slowly reading it. I think Alex should check the sections
regarding the Holy Spirit & Trinity.

Of course I'm different and started in the prayer section.

james

Christ is Risen !!!


The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church recently introduced the first translation of the Catechism in Ukrainian, and seemed quite happy to have it.


John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

How many are in favor of closing all eparchial religious education departments and their Eastern Christians Formation publications and simply passing out the CCC in their place?

Personally, I think their should be an edition for all of us non-Latin Catholics that presents the Faith according to our Traditions. Don

Don,

But many are quite happy with the CCC as being the authoritative text for Byzantine Theology; even Eastern Catholic bishops quote it extensively. What reason is there for a non-Latin edition if this text serves as a panacea for all theological discussion? Is it really necessary for non-Latins to come up with their own edition?

Joe

i agree with Don. One of the most irritating things about talking to Roman Caths (and wholly unintentional on their part) is when they parrot the line "the Catechism says this" "the Catechism says that" I am polite but i want to say to them "Have you read the Fathers from their source??" "Have you read the decisions of the Ecumenical Councils??" It is like the Catechism has become this add-on to Revelation as a extra book of Scripture It is JUST a catechism for Roman Catholics!!!!

Ok, Rant over

Are Roman Catholics the only ones who do this?

Brian,

Can you prove it?

Good discussion.

A catechism is a reference book. You will note the extensive footnotes that come with the CCC.
It even has sources listed in the indices by the Eastern Fathers and other Eastern writers.

I'm not trying to sell it as an Eastern Church catechism. I am pointing out some features that are available for those who want to learn where the CCC teachings came from.

I have a hard time understanding the Latin & Greek Fathers. I can handle a few good quotations from them and that's about it.

Paul

Dear Brian:


Just being true to form, I disagree with your assessment that:



The Cathechism of the Catholic Church was the product of Eastern and Western Catholic minds aimed at covering the "Universal" Church.

It is not perfect and shortcomings may be extant in some of its parts but this is an honest exposition of what Catholics believe in, presented in a compendium of what the Catholic Church (East and West) believed/s through the ages.

It is not immutable and amendments thereto (or editions, if I may add) inheres in the process as we believe in "doctrinal development."

AmdG

Dear Friends,

Well, no one is saying that the CCC has no value as a catechetical tool.

But it is largely an excellent Latin catechism that views the Christian East from the "outside in."

And that is, in and of itself, heartening.

The CCC's section on the Jesus Prayer, Theosis, the Trinity et alia do just service to the Eastern traditions.

But even if it can be shown, and with some justification, that everything that "we have" is covered by the CCC, the perspective there is a Latin one that is trying to reach out to understand the East.

This is a great thing, the first time since the split that it has ever happened as a matter of fact.

But clearly the Vatican II understanding of the Particular Eastern Catholic Churches implies that we are entitled to the full range of our own theological frameworks.

"Catechisms" in and of themselves were a product of the Western scholastic movement (St John Damascene's "De Fide Orthodoxa" was not a catechism, even though it did use a question and answer format).

The later Orthodox catechisms, that of St Peter Mohyla (there's a great Slavonic Akathist to him on "akafist.narod.ru"!) and the Confession of Dositheus were attempts to use the Jesuit scholastic methods in defending and defining Orthodox faith and praxis.

The spirit of the CCC, excellent in content though it is, is of a decidedly scholastic, rationalist one, employing a carefully reasoned logic that is enlightened by faith and Tradition.

And that is simply not our way.

Again, it is no matter that the CCC comes close, or closest or else is "right on" the Eastern perspectives on Theosis etc.

It is a product of the Particular Latin Church, period.

The fact that the UGCC translated it into Ukrainian, rather than try and produce something from within its own Kyivan tradition (a revamped Catechism of Mohyla would have been fine too - even though outdated in its methodology, as the Polish Jesuits are long gone) shows up our own Ukie CATHOLIC mentality that thinks that anything RC can be "adapted" to our Church by simply translating it into Ukrainian with perhaps an appendix on Ukie Christmas and Easter traditions . . .

What the CCC represents for Eastern Christians really is an up to date statement on truly how far the West has really come with respect to better understanding the East.

That is what fascinates me about this Catechism. It really tells me nothing about the Faith as seen from within the prism of my own Particular Ecclesial theology.

Alex

True, there are Orthodox that can drive one crazy with quoting the Pedalion But at least these are ancient sources. My problem with this incessant reference to the Catechism is that it is not keeping it in it's proper perspective. Like Paromer said, it is a reference book and it's content is clearly Roman Catholic theology with all of it's bows to the Eastern Church.